[Shemker394]

Life sentence is less harsh than 99 years.
Time served for release is a percentage. Life is undetermined.

[HexcewlyRette]

are meaningless without the financial responsibility Do any of you remember the kids you went to high school with?

I don't know about you, but I would be hard pressed to find a job that paid enough to pay rent, buy/fuel a car, pay for food and raise a kid at 14 without a high school degree, let alone have the time to work long enough while trying to get an education to qualify for a better job.

Ozzy's financial independence is a receipt for creating an educationless permanent underclass.

[ResuNezily]

highschool can be completed by the time you are 14

[vintsqyuid]

if you take classes during the summer, it can

just look at the time commitment, you get off about 1/3 the year... so in 8 years you should be able to do 12 years, if you don't have all that extra (unneeded) vacation

JM

[konanoileaski]

Umm, my education was payed for by scholarships (And federal grants). My parents didn't do anything (But pay for me to visit at Christmas, and over the summer).

Currently the system is set up to pay for anyone's education (College) whose parents make below a certain amount, since I would have these young adults no longer depedent on parents, then they would be open for the grants and loans that make education available to all... they wouldn't need their parents money

I was definitely capable of higher level education at 12... I was very very bored at the time.

JM

[herrdwq]

Originally posted by Patroklos



Lame, why should I pay for someone's college education if they can't qualify for scholarships/loans via academics?

In any case, how is this instilling independance and responsiblity by having someone else pay for their college?
Because they would have to pay it back some day. It isn't free money. There is a cost associated with it.

And already many many people (the majority) get their education payed for with government support. This would just enable the children of the wealthy to get it, not just the children of the poor.

JM

[fluistulkn]

I had to edit that, those grants/loans are hardly as universal as you think.

In any case if a rich parent decides to spend their own money on sending an academically undeserving child to college what concern of it is yours? What is the point of making money if you can't spend it on what you want? If the college accepts an academically unqualified rich kid that is their perogative. If an academically qualified student gets their tuition paid for without a loan, less stress on the system.

That has no bearing on why you should use my money to send an academically unqualified poor person to college to give you warm fuzzies.

In any case, few people will be getting scolarships/grants/loans of any kind given the levels of education 99% of kids can absorbe at 13/14 years of age.

Did you go to public schools?

[feeshyLew]

Yep, I went to public schools. The students aren't required to work there, and isntead spend their time goofing off (often with drugs and sex (which leads to pregnancy)) and basically hurting their futures.

This is a symptom of the rottenness of the system. They are being treated like kids, and it makes them miserable and depressed, and the lack of responsibility means that there is little reason to not do drugs/etc. Also, they haven't been given responsibility in other parts of life, so don't know how to practice it in the parts of life that they need to (drugs/etc).

A lot of the people I know had grants/loans. Additionally, if you look at income, and the greater wealth divide we are seeing now, there will be more and more people who go to college because of loans/grants (in our current educational system).

Currently parents are expected to pay for their children through college, and even afterwards. My brother tried to get indepedent, and it is very very hard... I know others who have also tried to do this. You basically have to go to court in order to be considered financially independent below the age of 25.

Academically unqualified people shouldn't be going to college in the first place. Currently, unless their parents are rich, they don't now. I don't see where I suggested that in my suggestion this would be different.

JM

[downtowndude]

Basically, the teenagers aren't responsible for themselves, so they aren't responsible for their education, don't care about it, and so don't succeed with it. They would rather spend their time goofing off, and since they aren't responsible for their schooling, they given no reason not to. Yes, it is nice to look to the future, but most adults don't do that either. Most adults do things (like work) so that they can hvae food, shelter, and do the things they want to. If they didn't have to work to have those things, most adults wouldn't choose to.

JM

[Soresbox]

They would rather spend their time goofing off, and since they aren't responsible for their schooling, they given no reason not to. Well now you have stumbled onto the true source of the problem, which is the lack of short term ACCOUNTABILITY for their actions. Students are responsible for their schooling, behaviour, sexual choices, etc. We can'd directly force them to do any of that stuff. The problem is we delay the accountability for there actions (both good and bad) until 18 when we kick them out on the streets.

Trust me, if I came home with an F, got suspended from school or knocked up my gf at 14 accountability would be swift and exacting. Consequently I wouldn't do it again.

Guess whose job that is?

[CxofxJFm]

Parents are accountable for their 4 and 6 yearolds. Everyone but the worse parents acheives this.

Parents, even the best of them, fail at being accountable for their teenagers. That is because their teenagers are adults! Not kids!

Forcing against biology is just causing needless social problems.

JM

[Jenisoisy]

Parents, even the best of them, fail at being accountable for their teenagers. That is because their teenagers are adults! Not kids! My parents didn't. Around 14/15 I grew tired of them being accountable for me and everything that entailed so I took the reigns and regulated myself. That doesn't mean my folks didn't have an overwatch, but as I proved I was responsible the restraints loosened. You earn responsibilty JM, thats how the real world is.

Forcing against biology is just causing needless social problems. Thats great. I am happy to know you will be moving to PA and tilling the feilds with the Quakers when you decide to raise your children. Or maybe you will start a hunter gatherer tribe in Brazil.

The modern world isn't natural, which is why we tend to frown on our children having kids as 11.

[ViagraFeller]

Teenagers have a biological need to be indepdent. Their biology is telling them they are adults, but our society isn't allowing them to be so. As such they are miserable, and they show indepdence in what ways they can (by rebelling) (which are generally in such areas as irresponsible sex or substance use).

I see no reason why we must refuse them this need to be indepdent. In a capitalst society, indepdence depends upond finance, and there isn't even a reason for teenagers to not be financially indepdent.

We see more and more irresponsible bahavoir going into the 20s, and 20 yearolds become less and less financially indepdent. This crime against our young adults will continue, and will cause soceity to become more miserable for everone, as long as we fail to recognise the central issue.

JM

[Franchise]

Uh, guys, you're missing something. Two out of the five young me in the report came from Hideously abusive environments. They are not learning responsibility, or any other similar life skills. They are focused on survival, pure and simple. Like the boy whose stepfather would take him into the bathroom to beat and rape him (read the story - I seperate abusive acts from violent acts).

The offenders that are abused have an utterly warped sense of responsibility and accountability. To them accountability means being abused for the slightest infractions (as well as randomly or routinely, depending on the environment). How many of you could deal with being beaten for the slightest infraction. It creates no sense of responsibility, only fear. Germane to the original post on how to avoid these kids - identify abusive situations early on. Of course you need to do it without false alarms that screw up healthy families.

Your discussion is very good in arguing over the best way to bring up healthy adolescents, and I agree with many of the statements. It's just for the kids that are abused it has NO relationship to their expenience. We haven't even discussed that there are also control issues - again read the one where the mother used control and sexual abuse to manipulate him and keep him isolated - that again make these kids INCAPABLE of normal lives without massive intervention.

That last reason is why I am very mixed. Kids like this are DANGEROUS. I do not believe they should be punished per se when they kill their abusers, but I do believe society must be kept safe. A high security mental institution, with accounatabliity for results, would be best. I just cannot see the current US electorate choosing that, both for the "Tough on Crime" aspect as well as the expense (skilled mental health care workers are paid a fair bit extra for working with these clients due to the fact that building trust and the other necessities for successful treatment means dealing with them in less than totally secure environments).

[Kiliunjubl]

Good post (Mr. Harley).

I don't think he's saying the kids have no responsibility in the matter whatsoever. But come on...

-Arrian

[DeronBoltonRen]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I suppose we really shouldn't hold school shootings against them either, they were only acting out agianst the bullies and peer abuseres. Doesn't really matter, does it? Most school shooters kill themselves.