[Seeseeskeva]

or are we just more heartless?
or have better legal systems?
or better policemen?

[AnimeThat]

A lot of them get life on felony murder charges. They were doing something illegal and someone died, either accidentally or on purpose. Everyone who was involved in the commission of the first crime gets life.

[XarokLasa]

the stories from that link are so sad

[diemeareendup]

I don't know all that much about the criminal justice systems in, say, China, India, Indonesia, Brazil... Don't feel too bad, nobody does, including the source in the OP.

A lot of them get life on felony murder charges. They were doing something illegal and someone died, either accidentally or on purpose. Everyone who was involved in the commission of the first crime gets life. I don't see the problem, the OP is stated as if you find something wrong for them getting life for those sorts of things.

In any case, Ozzy will be proud

[appabessy]

' "I definitely didn't understand the gravity of what it means to kill somebody. I mean, I didn't think they'd feel pain. I didn't think that anybody else would be affected."

Cue the Timberlake.

The only thing this teenager didn't understand is why his lame (for justifying murder) didn't get him hugs and kisses. There are a couple intermediate steps before killing people.

[TepSteade]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
On planet Earth, there are 2237 children serving life sentences (or adults who were sentenced to life as children). Of that number 2225 of them are in the United States. The entire rest of the planet, where 95% of the population lives, accounts for only twelve kids with life sentences. We account for 99.5% of all life sentences given to kids. I work in market research and we lie with statistics every day. BUT even we wouldn't draw any conclusions from what's presented here.
As noted by other posters. Yeah we probably have some real credible stats from other countries on this one.
I'm sure a lot of countries just kill them or sell them into some type of slavery.
I would love to see the qualifications and definitions for this one.

Anyone that thinks that there are realy only 12 kids serving the equivalent of life sentences in the ENTIRE WORLD out side the US, is really naive.

[yazetaw]

I would imagine that in some other countries, they'd simply be killed, instead of being kept in prison for life. I could be wrong, of course. I don't know all that much about the criminal justice systems in, say, China, India, Indonesia, Brazil...

Not really. There have only been a handful of juvenile executions in recent years (most of which were done by Iran; we were number two until SCOTUS outlawed the practice in 2005). HRW and AI seem to have somewhat different numbers, but it looks to be no more than several a year.

[meridiasas]

True, forgot to qualify the statement. But the point's that the number probably isn't going to be a huge amount more. Maybe add an order of magnitude. Four is a stretch..

[ExelePlavisseu]

Jacob's parents sound like they got what they deserved, btw.

-Arrian

[Xbcofega]

Teens charged in shooting death of 2-year-old girl staged ‘dry run’ first, prosecutor says
By DAWN BORMANN
The Kansas City Star
Hernandez
Hernandez

* Video from the Associated Press NBC Action News

The drive-by wasn’t random, the prosecutor told the judge.

Two teenagers performed a “dry run” of a shooting before carrying out the gang-related crime that killed 2-year-old Yelena Guzman, Wyandotte County District Attorney Jerome Gorman said at a court hearing Monday.

The practice was an attempt “to make sure they had the right house and something wouldn’t go wrong in the middle of it,” he said.

Gorman brought up that detail to stress the need to keep Luis Gonzalez, 15, and Daniel Perez, 16, in police custody. They are charged with first-degree murder and discharging a firearm into an occupied dwelling.

Gorman said the teens could be a flight risk and a danger to the community if released.

Wyandotte County District Judge David Boal accepted his recommendation.

The case has rattled the community so much that Perez’s mother took the unusual move of asking for her son to remain in police custody for the protection of himself and her family. The family has received threats since the two were charged Friday.

“We don’t believe that Mr. Perez would be safe if he were to be released today, so we’re not asking for him to be released,” said his attorney, Dan Cahill.

Perez has two previous convictions, including possession of a weapon and disorderly conduct.

Gonzalez’s family asked that he be released, noting that he didn’t have a criminal record and was a good student at Bishop Ward High School in Kansas City, Kan.

Gorman, though acknowledging Gonzalez’s clean background, offered a different picture. He said Gonzalez was the driver and Perez the shooter on April 3.

Perez allegedly fired several bullets into the house of Yelena’s grandparents near 17th Street and Minnesota Avenue in Kansas City, Kan.

One bullet struck Yelena, leaving the toddler on life support for nearly two days before she died. Her death came just one month before her third birthday.

Yelena’s father, Fernando Guzman, said he thought the gunman was looking for his brother-in-law, who Guzman said was involved in gang activity and was at the home when the shooting occurred.

Gorman hasn’t said whether he’ll seek to try the teens as adults. He said he would wait until he received more information from police before announcing his decision.

Gorman said others also might face charges.

If the teenagers are convicted as juveniles, they would be released when they turned 23½. If convicted as adults, they could face life prison sentences.

The hearing drew a large crowd to juvenile court, including the extended families of Gonzalez, Perez and Yelena.

As Yelena’s family left the courtroom, her father said he was bothered to see the defendants’ family members shed tears during the proceedings.

“I don’t know why,” Guzman said. “He’s alive. She’s dead.”

Guzman said the boys’ families could still visit them.

“We can never see Yelena again — never — never,” he said.

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/201972.html

Assuming they're guilty, should these two serve life sentences?

[fetesiceWaist]

When i was a kid, I was served life every breakfast.

[hereiamguy]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
My nephew. He was a kid once.

Name: Hand,JOE EARL
Race: W
Sex: M
Age: 27
Maximum Sentence Date: 2049-12-06
Current Facility: FERGUSON
Projected Release Date: 2049-12-06
Parole Eligibility Date: 2024-12-06

Current Offense Data:
Offense Date Offense Sentence Date County Case No. Sentence (Y-MM-DD)
1999-03-26 AGG ROBBERY 2000-07-13 DALLAS F-9954433-ML 50-00-00 He's the same age as me

25 year minimum sentance? He went in at 19 and has no chance of getting out till he's 44? That's insane, up to 50 years total possible? Insaner still. Do something silly at 19 and possibly be in prison till you're 69...

It's a bad crime, I'd never have done anything like that but still... most of us are still a bit stupid at 19.

Sorry sloww. Tricky question, but would you say he deserved it? I mean was he misguided but generally an ok guy?

[topbonusescod]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Teens charged in shooting death of 2-year-old girl staged ‘dry run’ first, prosecutor says
By DAWN BORMANN
The Kansas City Star
Hernandez
Hernandez

* Video from the Associated Press NBC Action News

The drive-by wasn’t random, the prosecutor told the judge.

Two teenagers performed a “dry run” of a shooting before carrying out the gang-related crime that killed 2-year-old Yelena Guzman, Wyandotte County District Attorney Jerome Gorman said at a court hearing Monday.

The practice was an attempt “to make sure they had the right house and something wouldn’t go wrong in the middle of it,” he said.

Gorman brought up that detail to stress the need to keep Luis Gonzalez, 15, and Daniel Perez, 16, in police custody. They are charged with first-degree murder and discharging a firearm into an occupied dwelling.

.....


Guzman said the boys’ families could still visit them.

“We can never see Yelena again — never — never,” he said.

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/201972.html

Assuming they're guilty, should these two serve life sentences? Yes.

They're sick bastards.

[Unhappu]

Originally posted by Perfection

When i was a kid, I was served life every breakfast. cinnamon life = bestest cereal EVER

[TZtrDuso]

Joe was habitual. Mostly stupid petty things. The last was a carjacking, though.

By comparison, Man gets 25 years for burning girlfriend

07:18 PM CDT on Monday, July 9, 2007

Associated Press Still Texas.
I know habitual deserves some time and he's done 7.
He deserved 7. He might deserve 10. Parole hearing is more than 10. 50 seems a little excessive.

[occalmnab]

Well according to Robert Epstein's analysis of the problem in his book, The Case Against Adolescence, the way we treat youth in this country (i.e. denying them meaningful, productive roles in society) creates an environment that fosters criminality. It is an issue throughout western society but markedly worse in the US I suppose this is why the 'youths' in France aren't arrested for burning cars.

Just because the US has stricter laws doesn't mean that criminality is necessary less in countries where they are more lenient.

[flueftArete]

As a society, we have determined that kids like the critical facilities to enter into binding contracts, drink alcohol, have sex with adults, drive in cars with more than one person present, etc. But if they commit a crime, they certainly have the critical facilities to serve life.

It's a double standard. Either we adopt the Ozzy standard, and treat kids as adults in all ways (which I think would be bad in many ways and good in some) or we stop sentencing children as adults.

BTW, many other countries have youth crime problems as severe or worse than the U.S. Starting in the 1980s, the U.S. just got insane about crime and decided to cut off its nose to spite its face in the warped belief that tougher prison sentences and tougher prisoners somehow deter crime. My understand is that recidivism got worse in this period; so much for deterrence.

[citalopram]

Exactly Siro.

[Lvnufcdc]

it will eventually.

[Trercakaressy]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Yes it is. Because it will give them sooner the need to show responsibility.

Responsibility is mostly an acquired trait, that is developed in response to what the society expects of you. Letting kids off the hook and taking responsibility away from them, onto adults, just blocks them from growing up.

Our grandparents, as well as children around the world in developing countries, often have grave responsibilities as soon as 14 years of age.

They adapt and become productive society members.
Just because you did and I did and a lot of other kids may have, doesn't mean everyone will. Many adults are shockingly immature and very irrisponsible. So much for responsbility making them productive members of society. Many teens do just fine without the right to vote or drink or any number of other things without killing or robbing. Giving a person responsibility doesn't magically make them more responsible. They either rise to the occasion or sink.