[soonahonsefalh]

Neither.

[gkihueonhjh]

Prosecuting him is absurd, of course, but I found this amusing:

"Whereas the average IQ of Finns is 97

[Khcyhshq]

Evolution? I'd go with guns, germs and steel.

[inhitoemits]

His views square with what we know about intelligence, and what we generally observe in the world around us. Why should he be prosecuted?

[Wxrxnhar]

He has transgressed against the high priests of the offended, and their wrath doth wax hot.

[BrodiKennedy]

I can see the controversy. Though nothing illegal about it.

[Gskdmidd]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Do you have the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater when there is none?

Same thing, but Finland expands it to hate speech. That's an inane comparison. There's no similarity between the two cases.

[DoctorAlexandro]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


That's an inane comparison. There's no similarity between the two cases. It is a bit of a stretch but I think Japher was emphasizing the percieved absurdity of this quote:

Finland’s minority Ombudsman Mikko Puumalainen hopes that a police investigation will be launched. He says that although freedom of expression is a fundamental right in Finland, the right is not unlimited. Namely that a "fundamental right" can be limited. Well, of course it can. We do it in the United States.

[RerRoktoido]

The "race as science" baloney has been pushed for over 100 years now, and it continues to produce no respectable results, for many reasons but starting with that there is no biological definition of race to begin with, no single trait that every person of a certain group has or doesn't have. Actually, it hasn't been pushed properly so it can't produce results.

Once that is established it is a lot easier for people to (correctly) consider that the achievement gap, crime rates, etc. are better correlated with income and social status. I agree completely, and as the old codger says "Differences in intelligence are the most significant factor in explaining poverty". Do you deny this? Do you deny that the poorest of countries in Africa are those under self rule? Why is this? Will I say race? No, but in a similar fashion that it takes money to make money, it also takes poor people to keep people poor.

It's also not an absurd observation to make in Finland or other 1st world countries that the more poverish neighborhoods tend to have a certain ethnic make-up, and this, IMO, has highly to do with level of assimilation that this "racist" is pushing for. Similarly, poor white trash cultures tend to be charlitans.

If you don't think the claim that Europeans are just naturally smarter than Africans is racist or hateful, I guess you are too removed from racism. Remember that claims like this were used throughout the 1900s to justify the socially-caused inequalities between groups, especially in the US. Sorry if it's racist to point out the evolution has also made the black man taller, stronger and faster and thus a better athlete... in general. I think I could argue the IQ test as a measure for demonstrating this "intellegence" better than I can argue why all the poor people seem to be of a specific minority despite advantages given to them to do better. I think that he would been better to state something along the lines that the communities which are poorer tend to put less weight/emphais on education than do other communties and that we ought to do something about that... which is pretty much what he did, with one additional correlation.

Perhaps we should address the problem that he pointed out instead of crying over the fact that we think he is a racist... but will probably not get past all the whinning and name calling in order to fix or do anything.

[Srewxardsasv]

Originally posted by Japher
It's also not an absurd observation to make in Finland or other 1st world countries that the more poverish neighborhoods tend to have a certain ethnic make-up, and this, IMO, has highly to do with level of assimilation that this "racist" is pushing for. Similarly, poor white trash cultures tend to be charlitans. I have no doubt that an improvement in the environment of these groups would yield results, but expecting equal results from all groups is a pipe dream IMO. Mother nature is not egalitarian.

[uaodnabnjz]

nope... you should know better of me

[Infiseeenvelp]

Are you trying to make a point?

[russianstallian]

Professor Tatu Vanhanen is the coauthor of an important book, "IQ and the Wealth of Nations". I've acquired the book, but haven't read it yet.

His theory is very plausible. There are big anomalies (for example: Argentine IQ predicts a much higher GDP/capita than is the case) but in general there is a high correlation between average IQ and GDP/capita of a country.

As always, that doesn't prove the direction of the causation. It could be that IQ -> Wealth. It could also be Wealth -> IQ or Something Else -> (both Wealth and IQ).

I don't doubt that that is covered in more length in the book, but as I said I haven't read it yet.

As for the comments made by prof. Vanhanen. They do not show him as evil nor as dumb. The affair simply demonstrates that Finland is a thoroughly politically-correctized country.

[russmodel]

Originally posted by JulianD
Notice that story is almost 3 years old (12.8.2004 - TODAY), i'm not 100% certain but IIRC nothing much really came out of it. Yeah, I was wondering whether this was a new development or something, but it was the same story. Nothing happened to Professor Vanhanen and the hassle died out in a week or two, and his son continued as the PM after the 2007 election.

[AngelBee]

mrmitchell, it is simply incredible how much nonsense you were able to condense into post #29. I doubt that there is a single thing in it you got right.

I salute you.

[cabonuserollyo]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Come on, Japher, you're much better than this. Patronizing Japher.

[EbrsaRynleot]

in Africa it is between 60 and 70. So the average African is mentally retarded?

[conurgenceDen]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Are you trying to make a point?
Yep. We've had this sort of discussion umpteen times, and it's a point that normally crops up around post 200 or so. I'm trying to hit the "fast forward" button this time.

IQ test results are significantly influenced by a host of environmental factors, and Down Syndrome kids are the latest hot area of study. Average Downsie IQ results are steadily rising with improved teaching methods, dietary supplements and a general move towards greater aspirations for the kids. It helps them thrive. 30 years back they were just considered to be retards, not really worth teaching.

Of course, similar attitudes tended to be held about blacks further back. And, further back still, the Irish. And the working class in general.

Which begs the question- how many times do those clinging to the notions of genetic racial/class untermenschen need to be proved wrong before they get the ****ing point hammered into them?

[tsovimnpb]

Originally posted by Caligastia
and virtually everyone who studies intelligence seriously agrees that there are also genetic factors. The only argument is over the ratio.
You don't need to be seriously studying intelligence to spot the fact that you're contradicting yourself there.

[anxpuna]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
If anyone's interested, here's a site giving advice on how to improve the IQ of children with Down Syndrome.

http://www.cdadc.com/ds/cognitiv.htm Don't be mean, Cali and mrmitchell aren't that slow