[MrsGoo]

Originally posted by nostromo


Its not. I sold my Xbox and I rarely play computer games.

I just think a desktop should be upgradeable. If you want to change your videocard, you should be able to. If you want to add a second hard drive, you should be able too. All my music is stored on my computer in FLAC. Its eating up hard drive space fast. So much so that I had to install a new hard drive a couple of months ago. It was all straightforward on my PC. Now, if I had a iMac I would have had to buy an external hard drive. Did I mention that I also have an external hard drive for backup puposes? So that would mean two external hard drives... NOOOOOOO!!!!

Didn't you read my post? Anyone who can follow instructions can replace an iMac's hard drive. I did on my old iMac, and I wouldn't describe myself as a techie. For the new ones, you basically lie it down face first on a towel, take off the case and insert the new drive in place of the old one. Apple has a downloadable manual on how to do this IIRC (at least they did for the G5 iMacs, which have the same form factor, as a quick Google shows). They even colour the screws, so you know which ones to take out.

Instructions..

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/ima..._harddrive.pdf

Look, macs aren't for everyone, particularly gamers. But a lot of things said about them are untrue and unfair.

[addisonnicogel]

nm

[sciectotacype17]

Steve Jobs sucks and Apple sucks too. There! I've said it now you can all go home.

[viagraman]

The other amusing part of Agathon's post there was about a year and a half ago, I got a desktop with 1 GB RAM and a GeForce 7800 GT, with 2.13 GHz Dual Cores (from Velocity Micro) for around $2000.

[dfuzioniag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The other amusing part of Agathon's post there was about a year and a half ago, I got a desktop with 1 GB RAM and a GeForce 7800 GT, with 2.13 GHz Dual Cores (from Velocity Micro) for around $2000. Yes, because this is anywhere near comparable to an 8 core professional workstation.

Honestly... it's so easy sometimes...

[PypeMaypetasy]

Having done professional graphic works on a Mac...they do generally need more RAM. The people who buy the stuff I worked on do not really know what to look for and whatever Mac advertisements they looked at as far as recommendations for graphics and publishing were inaccurate or ineffective. Unfortunately, with Macs as opposed to PCs, when dealing with graphics that strain RAM, Macs will just crash without warning and you can lose quite a bit of data. Windows will just slow to a crawl.

[HBPujWBe]

Dell. About 3K$ cdn. For about the same money, you have a lot less CPU power (the Mac has 2 dual cores, whereas the Dell has 1), twice the amount of memory, a better GPU (I presume) and three times the warranty.

Components
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5130 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2,1333MHz), English
Genuine Windows Vista™ Business, with media, English
2GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC in Riser (2 DIMMS)
Dell 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FP Widescreen, adjustable stand, VGA/DVI
128MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro NVS 285, Dual DVI or Dual VGA Capable
16X DVD-ROM with Cyberlink Power DVD™ for Vista Business
C1 All SATA drives, Non-RAID, 1 or 2 drive total configuration
250GB SATA ll,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst Cache™
Essentials
No Installation
Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
Accessories
No Floppy Drive
No Keyboard Option
No Speaker option
No Mouse Option
Options
3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year NBD On-Site Service
Also Includes
SAS Integrated Controller - For Connecting Internal SAS Hard Drives

[ahagotyou]

Originally posted by Master Zen

Indeed I was talking about the initial models. But please excuse me, the correct word was "graphite". How silly of me to think that Apple would use such a plain non-presumptuous name like "black" to indicate its color. So grey is now the same as black.

Next time I go order a car painted in black, I should expect it to be in mid to dark grey.

Honestly...

From the guy who constantly argues that most people never upgrade their computers, this statement strikes me as all the more ironic. Let me explain this to you very slowly. There is a big difference between do and can. For example, anyone can have homosexual sex, but hardly anyone does. Similarly, anyone can pop a new hard drive in their computer (even an iMac), but hardly anyone does.

I can't believe you actually said that.

Maybe they shouldn't by the video card either. Or the monitor. Or... pretty much everything. I really can't understand what you mean by this comment.

(and before you start arguing that the leading PC vendors like Dell are overpriced, I do not disagree. But they're still cheaper than Apple). It depends. You can get a really cheap computer from Dell, which is rubbish. You can also occasionally get voucher discounts on medium price Dell models which make them cheaper.

But if you honestly spec out a Dell with the best equivalent you can get on a Mac, the price differential is normally not that much different. It's absolutely amazing how much cheaper a Dell can be when you fail to include the cost of a professional class OS, bundled software, and other things that come standard with Apple computers.

Then we're talking about a different price aren't we? I'm quite sure the price tag will increase considerably if it had been a 7800 rather than a 7300, thus widening the price gap even more relative to, say, Imran's PC. What's your point here? What does this have to do with the fact that the standard graphics card on a Mac Pro is perfectly fine for running most of the apps it is designed to run?

Is this non-sequitur for charity week or something?

With a measly 1 GB of RAM and a GeForce 7300? Nope. Um... because it isn't a gaming machine.... that's not what it is designed for.

Gee whiz... I'm going to buy an 8 core Mac Pro and then max it out with 16 gigabytes of RAM, and then I am going to play games on it. What sane person would do that?

That's like saying I am going to buy a Kenworth as a family car. WTF is wrong with you?

Is that why you came back? To get pwned yet again? Obviously not by you. Your last post is appalling, even by your low standards.

[Pjayjukr]

This is probably the black iBook that was discussed earlier. You will note that DaShi did correct himself as to it being an iBook not an iMac (although the iMac does come in graphite also). Graphite is translucent black, as far as I'm concerned, so that's perfectly reasonable for someone talking in imprecise terms anyway

[RagonaCon]

I'll try not to argue with you next time, MZ...

[erepsysoulpfbs]

Originally posted by Agathon
So grey is now the same as black.

Next time I go order a car painted in black, I should expect it to be in mid to dark grey.

Honestly... It's a friggin computer Agathon, not a car nor is it an interior decorating paint shop. Then again, considering that Macs make good furniture at best, maybe it is...

/me thinks 99% of people who bought "graphite" iMacs or iBooks told the guy in the store "Give me the black one".

Let me explain this to you very slowly. There is a big difference between do and can. For example, anyone can have homosexual sex, but hardly anyone does. Similarly, anyone can pop a new hard drive in their computer (even an iMac), but hardly anyone does. So basically, it doesn't matter the Mac Pro is underpowered in RAM since most people will upgrade ("will" is your word btw). Yet you argue that most people don't upgrade. So the "can" argument is irrelevant. Thus, under your logic, since most people don't upgrade regardless if they can, then 1 GB is too little.

It depends. You can get a really cheap computer from Dell, which is rubbish. You can also occasionally get voucher discounts on medium price Dell models which make them cheaper.

But if you honestly spec out a Dell with the best equivalent you can get on a Mac, the price differential is normally not that much different. It's absolutely amazing how much cheaper a Dell can be when you fail to include the cost of a professional class OS, bundled software, and other things that come standard with Apple computers. So in your mind the fact that OSX is better than Vista makes the price differential of a Mac justifiable. As for "standard" software, that's BS. All software which is "included" is reflected in the price one way or another. Nothing is ever free.

What's your point here? What does this have to do with the fact that the standard graphics card on a Mac Pro is perfectly fine for running most of the apps it is designed to run?

Is this non-sequitur for charity week or something? YOU are the one who said "The Mac Pro is ridiculously overpowered for gaming". Now do me a favor and justify that statement when it only has 1 GB of RAM and a GeForce 7300. That's all I'm asking although it seemingly is too much for you.


Gee whiz... I'm going to buy an 8 core Mac Pro and then max it out with 16 gigabytes of RAM, and then I am going to play games on it. What sane person would do that? So now you're strawman-ing 16 GB of RAM... right. Before you strawman yourself even more I'd like to remind you that the Mac Pro we've been talking about all along is a 4 core. How convenient of you to up the ante to suit your ever more ridiculous argument.

And yes, I know a lot of people who 4 core for gaming. Nothing unreasonable for that.

Obviously not by you. Your last post is appalling, even by your low standards. All the trash talk in the world isn't going to get you out of the hole you dug.

[mensforyouthis]

Aha, then there's a performance factor as well. The black MacBook is the best and most expensive one, so it's still a bit of an upgrade, even though I suspect she wouldn't have noticed much difference

[Nafheense]

Originally posted by Zopperoni
Aha, then there's a performance factor as well. The black MacBook is the best and most expensive one, so it's still a bit of an upgrade, even though I suspect she wouldn't have noticed much difference Well, she has both now.

[DoctorDeryOne]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Try... going to Dell's site, then Desktop, then Small Business... you just mayyy find it then. Watch him try to weasel his way out of it by arguing that it does not belong in the Small Business section, bla bla bla

[DiBellaBam]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You can put the single crappiest Quad Core Xeon in the cheapest 690, but it will be slower, since the processor speed is less than the two dual core Xeons in the cheapest Mac Pro. I'm guessing that's what you did, but that was disingenuous. If you add the Quad Xeon after that it is more expensive than the Mac Pro.

And if you put a 2.33 Ghz Quad Core, then it's far more than 2 2.0 Ghz Dual Cores, isn't it?

Try... going to Dell's site, then Desktop, then Small Business... you just mayyy find it then. Um... thanks for playing. You add in the 2.33Mhz Quad Core, and it becomes far more expensive than the Mac Pro.

[edit]To make things clear, I thought you were speccing a dual processor machine. You weren't. What you did, was spec a clearly inferior machine with 1 slower Quad Core instead of two quicker dual cores. I did however find the machine you were referring to, but it was clearly inferior and I did you the honor of not supposing you meant that one. I even mentioned it in my post. Perhaps you read it.

Remember to compare Apples with Apples and put it in the 1kw Precision Workstation. With Windows Vista, that comes to $3100. Even if you put the cheaper one in (which is not as good as the Mac Pro), it is still more expensive at $2600.

And all this is before you try to match the Software bundle on the Mac Pro.

What you were doing is putting the stuff in a computer with a lesser power supply.

Thanks and do come again.

[ReneCM]

Originally posted by Agathon

And all this is before you try to match the Software bundle on the Mac Pro.
What software bundle? It comes with the OS and that's it. Everything else is an extra.