[AncewwewBus]

If put in their position, Asher, I'd've done the same thing. Not for religious reasons (I'm not religious), but because I would not be able to pick which kid of mine to kill.

[gedsiz]

Asher, had they not used fertility drugs (something the church is against) it would not have happened..

[escolubtessen]

Then they shouldnt use God as an excuse, unless they belong to some denomination which is against abortion, but tolerant regarding fertility treatments.

[jessyhalm]

What's the difference between aborting four and letting them die when born. At least they have a chance this way. It seems from the information that you have provided that the parents made the correct decision as they have only lost three this way.

Trusting in God may or may not be the issue here. They may have just wanted to give every opportunity for life.

It seems that you draw specific conclusions from limited data that fit your narrow viewpoints all the time. While I am not saying that you are wrong in this instance, I am saying that you have not provided enough information to narrow things down to the simple perspective that you are espousing.

A little openess to other points of view would be refreshing.

[BritneySpearsFun@@@]

I could post some interesting stuff on Jewish law and fertility drugs, and Jewish law and the dilemma of saving some babies out of a multiple pregnancy, but as Im sure none of you are interested in Judaism, I will return to the quest for kosher kimchee.

[voodoosdv]

Originally posted by Asher

Thanks. You are quite welcome. I would merely suggest that anyone interested in a different POV could google and find some really interesting stuff.

Proceed with the usual trollery.

[Pedsshuth]

Originally posted by PLATO
I fail to see any reference to this being a religious choice in the cited article. Just because someone "trusts in the Lord" during a difficult time does not imply that they make all their decisions based upon their religion.

This is the factless leap that I am refering to. Perhaps, instead of making factless leaps like this, you could consider doing some research.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/sto...3286009&page=1

"This is a serious medical complication [multiple births from fertility drugs] and predictably leads to extreme prematurity," suggested Dr. Richard J. Paulson of the USC Keck School of Medicine.

"It's one of the worse things that could happen to you," said the infertility specialist.

Others question why a woman in her early 20s who had been trying to get pregnant for about a year did not have other options, like trying longer.

Jenny Mashe, 32 and her husband Bryan, 29, used artificial insemination to conceive and were shocked when an ultrasound revealed she was carrying six fetuses.

Both the Morrisons and the Mashes were approached by their doctors about the option of "selective reduction" -- the aborting of all but one to three of the fetuses.

The intention is to increase the likelihood the remaining unborn children will survive, thrive and be delivered full term.

Both families declined, chosing to leave the outcome "in God's hands." The Morrisons are committed Christians who met at Bethany College of Missions and married in 2005.

[Dynasty]

I'm not going to pull any punches in this post. Fair warning.

If, as the article states, these children were born 4.5 months early, that would put them at the 20-22 week gestation stage. It is absolutely unconscionable that her doctors even attempted to resuscitate these fetuses. The survivability odds at 20 weeks is nil; at 22, next to nil. And those who would survive would in no way live what we would call a "normal life." (I could be more precise if I knew their birth weights.)

If any survive, they will almost certainly have profound, irreversible brain damage, to such an extent that they will never be able to speak or otherwise communicate. They will also almost certainly require tracheostomies and gastrostomies to maintain their life. They will likely have other dysfunctions in other organs, depending on their NICU course.

Frankly, this smacks of physicians' best medical judgment being overwhelmed by their fear of bad publicity. Those children should have been allowed to pass without the torture they are now going through, and the endless suffering they will experience in the future.

[Appeselve]

Both families declined, chosing to leave the outcome "in God's hands." The Morrisons are committed Christians who met at Bethany College of Missions and married in 2005. You can be pro-life for non religious reasons, but still leave things in "God's hands" once those decisions are made.



Can we apply Asher logic to overpopulation in Africa please? Pretty pretty please!

[FailiaFelay]

Originally posted by Asher


Perhaps, instead of making factless leaps like this, you could consider doing some research.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/sto...3286009&page=1

"This is a serious medical complication [multiple births from fertility drugs] and predictably leads to extreme prematurity," suggested Dr. Richard J. Paulson of the USC Keck School of Medicine.

"It's one of the worse things that could happen to you," said the infertility specialist.

Others question why a woman in her early 20s who had been trying to get pregnant for about a year did not have other options, like trying longer.

Jenny Mashe, 32 and her husband Bryan, 29, used artificial insemination to conceive and were shocked when an ultrasound revealed she was carrying six fetuses.

Both the Morrisons and the Mashes were approached by their doctors about the option of "selective reduction" -- the aborting of all but one to three of the fetuses.

The intention is to increase the likelihood the remaining unborn children will survive, thrive and be delivered full term.

Both families declined, chosing to leave the outcome "in God's hands." The Morrisons are committed Christians who met at Bethany College of Missions and married in 2005.

This is a different article than the one you originally cited so my statement is still true.

However, I see that you were withholding information and actually have a quite valid point. I withdraw my argument.

[Wavgbtif]

Experts say Africa's infrastructure and services are overwhelmed by drastic increases in population, alot of them carrying an epidemic level disease.

Asher solution, come to the logical conclusion and remove excess population overwhelming infrastructure and services.

The rest of us apply something other than an experts opinion to something affecting people's lives. Maybe religion, maybe some other moral compass.

Or maybe you have something other than cold numbers that might keep you from supporting genocide?

[Gymnfacymoota]

What about the contribution the middle age adults might be making to society? What if the kids are just delinquents?

[ranndomderr]

Originally posted by PLATO
What about the contribution the middle age adults might be making to society? What if the kids are just delinquents?

All kids are delinquents. It's part of their charm.

And middle aged adults are stupid. Throw rocks at them.

[BoattyGonm]

Jesus Christ, I just realized what is going on in this thread.


Asher... is making sense.

I need to lie down in a dark, cool room, and reassess my outlook of the universe.

[freevideoandoicsI]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I could post some interesting stuff on Jewish law and fertility drugs, and Jewish law and the dilemma of saving some babies out of a multiple pregnancy, but as Im sure none of you are interested in Judaism, I will return to the quest for kosher kimchee. Please do [post]. At least two people here are actually interested in that.

[forexsoft]

Originally posted by Patroklos
There is your problem Asher. They are not excess fetuses to me, but people. Well, that's your problem. You're letting your spirituality (I don't buy for a second this isn't religious in some way) interfere with rationality. It's a problem that's pandemic in American society, largely due to hardcore Christians.

Not quite the same. Hint: Who is making the decisions in each instance??? The adults, for better or for worse.

Coming from the videogame designer

Tell us all about your hard choices. Since when was I a video game designer? Crackah please, they don't pay enough.

[VZF74G0M]

Originally posted by PLATO
In fact, if they were aware of the facts that Guynemer pointed out, then they are nearly criminal in their decision if you ask me. I'm certain they were aware. It's precisely why the doctors recommended selective reduction. They knew the births would be premature, and they knew that this would cause problems.

[SaraKonradtt]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Oh aren't you so smart and intelligent, you can actually tell me what I think! It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on.

Obviously you have a lot of problems, not a new revelation. I'm not the one who'd doom all six fetuses because I don't have the balls to make a tough decision.

So they decide to die (actually, just to take a greater risk), no one just kills them arbitrarily. Not the same scenario by a long shot. It is. It's a rational decision. You just aren't capable of making it, is all.

Fine. What choices? We all make choices every day. I've chosen to come out to family and friends, I've chosen where to go to school, I've chosen where to work, I've chosen not to pretend to be heterosexual like many gay people do, etc. I've obviously never had to make a decision like this, but I'm clearly prepared to do so. Unlike you.

[Agedprepdoock]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on. Nope, which makes your complete failure to figure it out so glaring.

I'm not the one who'd doom all six fetuses because I don't have the balls to make a tough decision. Do you have the balls to kill four human being so that two can live? That is the decision they made. You have a different point of view.

It is. It's a rational decision. You just aren't capable of making it, is all. Now your just being obtuse. The difference between the two scenarios posed is obvious. But if you insist, when are you headed over to Africa to cull the doomed HIV infected population so the rest don't starve?

We all make choices every day. I've chosen to come out to family and friends, I've chosen where to go to school, I've chosen where to work, I've chosen not to pretend to be heterosexual like many gay people do, etc. Never had to choose who lives and dies though, that wasn't so hard.

obviously never had to make a decision like this, but I'm clearly prepared to do so. No, I really don't think you are. And if anyone is thinking of giving you that power, they probably wouldn't after reading this

Unlike you. Your so cute

[ErubTiereedig]

Do you have the balls to kill four human being so that two can live? That is the decision they made. You have a different point of view. Basically they knew before they got the fertility treatment that this could happen. That's the decision they made. They shouldn't blather on about god's will after monkeying around so much with human reporduction.