[jesyflowers]

Dear members of the community, I am seeking your advice on how to help the family to see the beauty of the Orthodox faith and the importance of being in a church? My husband was baptised in a Protestant church as a child, but have very unpleasant memories of attending a church. He was pushed to go when he didn't want to and he has met people who belong to Christian parishes but behaved badly after his opinion. He has some interest in the Chrstian faith, but it is very week. I myself attend the Church frequently and sing in a Church choir. Have you had any good experiences? good thoughts or ideas?

[GentlieGant]

The only way that you can communicate the beauty and value of the Orthodox faith is to show it in your life. So, live as a faithful and pious Orthodox Christian (if its not perceived as being important to you, it will never be important to them) and through your life show them the love of Christ. Nothing else will work - no "techniques", no tricks, no arguments, no magic - just your life. Oh, and of course pray for them that the Holy Spirit will enlighten them (since that's His job, not yours).

Fr David

[ZZChristopher]

The only way that you can communicate the beauty and value of the Orthodox faith is to show it in your life. So, live as a faithful and pious Orthodox Christian (if its not perceived as being important to you, it will never be important to them) and through your life show them the love of Christ. Nothing else will work - no "techniques", no tricks, no arguments, no magic - just your life. Oh, and of course pray for them that the Holy Spirit will enlighten them (since that's His job, not yours).

Fr David

The perfect description of Orthodox Mission in the world today.

As He said:
"Let your light so shine before men that they will see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

I have the similar problems Elena, my wife is Anglican. She is very supportive, but I have found it best to rise early, and to use the time in the evening when she is either cooking or relaxing with a book, to go into my study and say my prayers. But as the Lord changes me, he also makes our home a better place for her, and this she is becoming appreciative of. It's a balance: you need to be sensitive, which I'm sure you already are. She has just started to say "Isn't it time for Vespers?" before going to make the dinner.

As for church attendance, my wife has come on occasion, but she can't stand the orthodox services, and in any case goes to her own; so I think this is a major obstacle. I know that I can't alter it, only God can, so I don't provoke her by asking her to attend - this just causes resentment and resistance and the Lord won't force anyone. She didn't even come to my ordination as a sub-deacon, but she did come to dinner with my Archbishop the night before (and told him that I had her support). This is her saying: "I'm not against the practice of your religion, but I am not going to practice it myself".

As Father David says, all we can do is live our orthodox faith as best we can in the circumstances, and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

Love and prayers,
Richard.

[Czrzftmz]

Wounderful advice Father Moser / Mr. Downing.

This thread came to me at just the right time.

[Greapyjeory]

Well, you could always make the argument that he/she is going to hell if he/she does not repent of his/her heresy and be baptized Orthodox -- right away! Some people actually do respond to that argument! Or so I'm told. My wife was actually very responsive to my wanting to become Orthodox, so I never really had to say anything, she went along and essentially brought the kids with her. So anything I would say would be theoretical. But all seriousness aside, Father David still makes the best point. Proselytizing as always easier outside the family. I proselyte is never really appreciated in his home town or in the home. Everybody can say, hey, don't talk to me, I knew you back when!

[leyliana]

It id a grate changeling being orthodox in a non-orthodox household, the best method I personally think is to live as orthodox as we can in our situation, we can also pray and ask the lord to sofern the hearts of our family so they become open to true faith. when we live with those who do not believe we must always remember that we represent our faith and only if we are consitant and faithful will we be able to win them especially if it is our family.

Phoebe

[spiveker]

Try to get him to come to church with you. You are already married, so you have great influence and can get him to come simply because church is important to YOU, whether or not he himself believes at this point. The Orthodox services are so beautiful, and God is present there, so it may work slowly on him over time.

I have seen it happen before...

[Lenkapuppia]

When i met Luke, he never talked about "Orthodoxy" as such, (I was Protestant /Anglican), but we had many discussions about God,comparing his views and mine,as the years went by i became more interested and asked him to take me to a service,once there i realised i was home!
Now i am an Orthodox christian, i can see how he never pushed me.My faith means so much more to me because of this, i choose Orthodoxy, so my relationship to it is personal, not contrived or manipulated. The advice here is perfect,by example and discussion my heart opened.

[jurnalkduo]

I am certainly an advocate of the "come and see" method, but we do well to realize that not everyone is so enamoured of the Divine Liturgy as some of us are. There are plenty of reasons to come up with for not continuing to go: "the incense makes me cough", "I can't stand up that whole time", "the service is too long", "I don't like the music".

Before, my wife couldn't go because the incense in our very small worship space triggered her asthma. Now we have a bigger church but she continues to not go, mostly I think from habit at this point, but she will say that she can't stand up so long or that it is just too different from what she is used to. They won't go if they don't want to go, and in such situations patience and continual prayer are the only answers I can come up with.

[finnmontserrat]

Dear all, thank you for your prompt replays and your advices/opinions! We went through different phases in our family life when it comes to faith. In the beginning, I was a neophyte and very eager to tell the whole world about the treasure I have found, also my own family. It did have some effect and some conversations were good, but also many bitter conversations that certainly would be better not to have. This is certainly my fault. After a while I started to realise that the time and the way in which I told them about the Orthodox faith was of crucial importance and I selected the right moments when we could have a friendly talk and just said a few simple statements, trying not to hurt them in any way, but to make them see how much God is present in their life and how much He loves them. Then there came a day when I felt that I have said all that I could and knew myself and I stoped. All these times I have prayed for them. We started a group in our parish who is in the similar situation and we are praying for all our husbands every day at the same time, using the same prayer. For a while my husband become much softer to the faith and the church. He even tried to find the answers by himself talking to others. But then he became negative again and this is where we are now. At the same time I am experiencing a recessive period in my faith and this makes me cry. I cannot quietly watch how we fall apart from God, but I feel so weak. I can do nothing. I also feel very sad seeing how my nearest people live they lives without God, not knowing the true happiness. Someone said that even Heaven is not a Heaven when you know that your loved one is not there. Of course, God is the most important. But didn't He say that there are no stronger love than when a man gives his life for the ones he loves? I want to learn how to do that in practice...

[JediReturns84]

Dear Elena, never push him. Coercion just makes things worse. Try to repeat the Jesus Prayer as much as you can, it will help you to overcome the dry period. Soon you'll be nearer to God again. And don't let your husband provoke you, you'll need some time of your own for prayers and for church. Please, phone Fr. Kliment, he'll listen to you and give some advice. Here's his contact info: http://www.ortodoks.no/russisk/Настоятель: игумен Климент (Хухтамяки)
Телефон: + 47 22 55 51 44
+ 47 93 460 465 (моб)
E-mail: kliment@ortodoks.no

Yours Dusja

[ANCETPYNCTEXT]

Thank you, Dusja! God save you! Asking for your and all other member's prayers.

Elena

[JonatonM]

Explain to him that he needs both entrance to heaven and immortality and that he can get these in Eastern orthodox Church
Classification of Religions:

Man lost immortality and entrance to Heaven. Jesus brought them back.

3.1. ENTRANCE TO HEAVEN

John 3:3
3:3 Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew,{The word translated "anew" here and in John 3:7 (anothen) also means "again" and "from above".} he can't see the Kingdom of God."
3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!
John 3:3 John 3:5 may mean no baptism no heaven. Here I mention that thief on the cross was neither baptized neither Christian anyhow was first man in heaven. Gospel of Nicodemus shows he was baptized by Jesus after his death.

3.1.1.So we have Eastern Orthodox Christian Church and Christian denominations that offer baptism to give entrance to heaven.
3.1.2 We have all religions and denominations not offering baptism


Basically all children of Adam and Eve were denied entrance to heaven. Now baptism means dying as child of Adam and Eve and being reborn from spirit as child of God. Christians are not called to name God master
we call God as Father. See our Father prayer for Christians. Now dying as children of Adam and Eve we die for and to interdiction for
entrance to heaven and as children of God we can enter heaven. Jeremiah 31:31 speaks about the new convenant brought by Word of God
so first convenant was not eternal and not unchangeable.

MIRACLE BAPTISM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfmrqZwUjCQ

3.2. IMMORTALITY

John 6:53 John 6:54 No Holy Communion no life probably no eternal life
Apostles wrote Holy liturgies centered on giving Holy Communion for eternal life. Apostle James the leader of Early Church wrote Holy liturgy of Apostle James in year 60 . Today, year 2012, the Eastern orthodox Church of Jerusalem celebrates same Liturgy as Early Church. We also have Holy Liturgies of Apostles James, Apostle and Evangelist Mark, Apostles Peter, Thomas and others.God comes in every Sunday in Eastern orthodox Churches to transform bread and wine into Holy Communion for eternal life and there are pictures showing light coming into altar where God is coming. Another blessing of water done since Early Church calls on God for blessing of water and water starts resisting for years and molecular movement changes from brownian movement to something else after God is expected to come and bless the water and the changes show that God did come and did bless the water.


3.2.1.So we have Holy Eastern orthodox Church that gives Holy Communion as in Early Church with leavened bread.
3.2.2 Church that allows also unleavened bread and sometime does not give wine
3.2.3.Churches that renounced Holy Liturgies even if all Churches before 1500 celebrated Holy liturgies. Without Holy liturgy, Holy
Communion was replaced by symbols (no symbol word in john 6:53), words
3.2.4.Religions and denomination with no Holy Communion for immortality

MIRACLE HOLY COMMUNION: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcL4mkNfzM

MIRACLES:
Angel takes orthodox soul to heaven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyBDs8JpEa8

YEARLY Miracles:
-YEARLY : On Orthodox Easter day a light comes in Jerusalem on the Church build on place of crucifixion on the date of Orthodox Easter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9iq7...eature=related
-YEARLY : On Orthodox celebration of BAptism Jordan river moves backward http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfmrqZwUjCQ

Video miracles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEo9p...e=results_main


Give to a poor person 5 breads, 4 bottles of water, 3 pair of clothes and 3 pairs of shoes as a gift to God from you.

Don't promise anything as you don't know what will be tomorrow.

When you have children do the same for them (say in your mind when giving "This is a gift to God from my Child X") and for the loved ones. Also maybe for person in after life that has nobody on Earth.

Try to fulfill. How much is needed I don't know. You can pray to God to help you fulfill in an easy way the verses below and also for as many people as possible to do the same.Pray so that at the end of this life you are save dand as many people as possible.
A prayer is powerfull when many people are added to good Ask for the prayer to be usefull:
Matthew
25:31: "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.
25:32: Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
25:33: He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
25:34: Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
25:35: for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in;
25:36: naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.'
25:37: "Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink?
25:38: When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you?
25:39: When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?'
25:40: "The King will answer them, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers{The word for "brothers" here may be also correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."}, you did it to me.'

[ZIDouglas]

Thank you Adrian! I will keep this reasonable explanation in my heart for the right moment to present it. This is where my efforts stopped last time. For me there never was a question if the Orthodox church is the right one, but it is to my husband. I have shown him earlier this short videos about the Church History:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJueCXNUahw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70ICV23M1mY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y07Ur6YOiho
I think it was helpful, but it didn't help him to see why he needed a church, while I failed to explain.
God save you!