[forebirdo]

I am curious as to whether there are others like me, or if there is something wrong with me. Many people on the web say that they are sensitive to spiritual/earth's energy; but I am physical proof. I am in excellent physical shape but can not raise my legs to walk or even wiggle my toes UNLESS I am touching (or in close contact) earth (stones, soil, plants), water, fire (or direct sunlight) or wind. Fire is the strongest, because I am fine as long as a flame is lit in the room. I am also fine if I am wearing shoes and my hands are in my pockets, closed fist or wearing gloves. Appliances that are turned on allow me to move within a certain distance to them; however appliances that are turned off nearly paralyze me. This is the same for piles of dead wood or old warehouse pallets. When I leave my house I tape a small flat stone to the small of my back at my belt line; and I use different energy sources at different times. I can tell if jewelry is real, find metal surgical implants in peoples bodies, find studs and wiring behind sheet rock walls, etc. simply by passing my hand over these things and seeing if I can wiggle my toes or lift my legs. I am treated a my local VA hospital where they have no clue, but the nerve conduction tests prove that is actually happening. I can also pull the energy out of certain points on people's body; always along the spine, but depending on the person in other places as well.

The energies of different objects are stronger than others and I can tell by varying distances from each depending on what the object is (plant, water or stone). Metal bracelets will also work, but are much weaker compared to natural elemental objects

I am a devout Christian. I love God and Christ with all my spirit; and this is a lonely place to be. I can’t talk to anyone about it because they will think that I am crazy; and I am afraid to approach anyone in the Church about it because they may think that I am evil or practicing magic. And my doctors can only tell me that I am the ‘most fascinating case that they have ever seen”.

I believe that the Arch Angels are placed over the 4 elements; and all I know is that these energies relieve my physical pain and allow me to move and function normally. However I am consumed with discovering the answer or reason for my condition.

[mikefertynnz]

The entire physical Universe is made up of energy and vibrations...

Sorry I cannot tell you anything useful. But I often think about the created vs uncreated paradigm...

best wishes

[purchasviagra]

Just because you experience it, does not make it good or true or helpful. Remember the demon possessed girl who followed the apostle Paul around claiming that he taught the truth. The demon in her could not but proclaim the truth - and it seemed "natural" to her, part of her make up and being. The Apostle's only recourse was to cast the demon out of her after which she was no longer capable of her former ability to "tell the truth" by supernatural means.

I'm not saying you are demon possessed, but certainly this enslavement to the created world is not natural, nor is it of God, but it is the deception of evil one. You need spiritual healing.

Fr David Moser

[Loolasant]

This is the reason that I don't go to my clergy about my condition. But how are we to know that this is not an enslavement to the created world of man, but rather a freedom to experience the unseen world of God? Are we not suppose to find peace, beauty and strength in nature? And if it is recognized that nature and all things created by God have a vibration and energy of its own then isn't it better to be able to feel those energies and vibrations rather than the negative energies created by man? And is it possible that you all feel them but are just not aware of it as I am?

I should also mention that I worked in nuclear power plants for nearly 9 years as an engineer. There is one neurologist who suspects that maybe working in high energy fields (not necessarily radiation exposure) may have altered my natural energy state. Even if that is the case, why could this not be seen as a healing and not something bad?

I have a greater appreciation and love for all that God created because of my condition, and I realize now that I could not exist normally in an environment without the things that God created before he created man. It is the enerrgies that man created that are interupting my system (electromagnetic energy).

I am not trying to rationalize, I just know that my energy is not confined to my body, and without it I would be in a wheelchair. What can be bad about a supernatural way that the body works?

[u2ZQGC6b]

Kevin,

This is an Orthodox forum with an emphasis on the historic teachings of the Fathers of the Church and the traditions of Monasticism. Father David is giving you the benefit of that wisdom and of course you are free to accept or reject it. But be advised, there is a spiritual condition, referred to as "prelest" by the Orthodox, where an individual feels that they know better than the time-tested wisdom of the Church. Things do not end up well for such people.

If everything is working out for you and you feel this is a gift, then what is the question, really? As for myself, I can only echo the advice of the Holy Apostle Paul, to "test all things", and of the Desert Father who advised his disciples that "if you see your brother in prayer carried aloft as if by angels, grab his ankle and pull him back down, those 'angels' might be demons in disguise."

Beyond that, I am not familiar with any recognized spiritual Father (or Mother) of the Church who describes what you have written and therefore we are going to be rather suspicious of it here in this place, just so you know.

Herman the Pooh

[bgsavings]

I'm not saying you are demon possessed, but certainly this enslavement to the created world is not natural, nor is it of God, but it is the deception of evil one. You need spiritual healing.

Fr David Moser

Fr Moser,

Would you be able to describe on what basis you suspect this to be a condition needing spiritual healing, as supposed to one that has a 'purely' physical cause like let's say diabetes?
Where does the western medicine accepted as useful by the Orthodox stop and spiritual medicine begin? I am so confused about this. Since there are no known pills or machines to measure and describe what Kevin's condition is, does it mean that it must be a deception of the evil one?

The body is very complex. I have seen most random cures for the strangest of conditions... The 'physical' and other dimensions (emotional, mental, spiritual) of intersect... Although I don't deny the demonic, but someone who studies, will not be happy labelling everything not yet understood as demonic, or witchcraft...

Kevin, all I could say, is that I believe that your condition in itself cannot be 'prelest' like Herman suggested, although your relationship/attitude to the condition could move in that direction if you allow it to...

Best wishes

[asSexate]

Btw, as much as this is not the right place for it, Chinese medicine and Taoism is a tremendous wealth of knowledge of how elemental energies influence our health. Not just Chinese, but pretty much every non-modern non-western healing system relies on the basics of elementals. Also the accupunctural energy pathway grid of the body is very closely connected to our consciousness and what we are aware of...

[kuzbaslachek]

Jan,

Please be advised that Chinese medicine and Taoism, except as to how they may relate specifically to the Orthodox patristic and monastic witness, is outside the scope of this forum. If Kevin wants to know what non-Christians have to say on the topic, he can to go forums where such things are discussed. This is not such a forum.

Herman the Moderator

[hereiamguy]

Herman,

I know, you are right and I understand why you are pointing that out.

There were however interesting questions on the Qi Gong and acupuncture etc threads on here in the past. I really wish the Church would be clear if Chinese medicine, (and other natural understandings of the principles/laws behind the created world) is not to be used by Orthodox, and explain why. Or if only some aspects could be used for healing then explain which. What I am remembering from those threads is that basically, no one seems to be very clear on where the physical ends and where the more 'subtle' levels begin, so as soon as someone ventures into a less then 'obviously physical' problem, people start mentioning the demons...


Jan the perpetual Troublemaker

[xtrudood]

We are not all saints quite yet and although such as I probably post way too much, we must admit that we are not yet all-knowing. This is why we have bishops and priests and why such things are generally handled at a pastoral level rather than through an anonymous impersonal Internet.

Herman the not all-knowing Pooh

[Cyclicymn]

Would you be able to describe on what basis you suspect this to be a condition needing spiritual healing, as supposed to one that has a 'purely' physical cause like let's say diabetes?

A couple of answers here. First, I took note of the fact that the medical profession cannot provide any "purely physical" cause for this. They say it happens but don't know how or why. Thus, if there is no medical cause then it is best to look for a non-medical cause which leads us into the spiritual realm. If, in the spiritual realm, it is not of God then there is only one other option.

Second. I don't necessarily admit that there is such a thing as "purely physical". The body and soul are a single entity and what affects one will affect the other. Any illness has a spiritual component and thus the body can be affected by spiritual action. It is my belief, stated elsewhere on this forum, that the treatment by solely medical or psychiatric means only addresses the symptoms of a deeper illness and that the cause can only be addressed by spiritual treatment as well as physical.

Fr David Moser

[Goodwin]

Fr Moser,

I understand, and I very much agree.

I don't mean to hijack Kevin's thread. The 'medical profession' cannot provide any cause for why one feels more alert, energised and one's body functions far more efficiently and in a coordinated manner after doing some Tai Chi exercises as supposed to other exercises done any which way, WITHOUT attention, like running or stretches or cardio. And so how does one know where this energy and alertness comes from, whether 'within' or 'without' and if it's of God or the other option...

[SpecialOFFER]

A couple of answers here. First, I took note of the fact that the medical profession cannot provide any "purely physical" cause for this. They say it happens but don't know how or why. Thus, if there is no medical cause then it is best to look for a non-medical cause which leads us into the spiritual realm.

Not necessarily. If traditional Chinese medicine, and other pre-modern medical traditions, are any indication, then there are many physical processes which are nevertheless not readily detectable by the methodologies employed by modern western medicine.

[Sopzoozyren]

Actually, very little good science has been done regarding the alleged "powers" of tai chi. There have been a lot of horribly-designed and pre-biased studies, but very little actual controlled study. What I have seen indicates that, while tai chi can be an effective exercise program, it is not inherently superior to other exercise programs except when high impact or high initial energy requirements are an issue. There is an actual risk specific to tai chi--it seems that chronic knee damage is more common among long-term tai chi practitioners. As for perceptions of "energy" and "alertness", they could easily be a placebo phenomenon. Practitioners expect to "gain energy" and "be more alert", so they are.

[ASSESTYTEAH]

Not necessarily. If traditional Chinese medicine, and other pre-modern medical traditions, are any indication, then there are many physical processes which are nevertheless not readily detectable by the methodologies employed by modern western medicine.

This part of my statement was not meant to be an all encompassing definition - but rather a specific answer to a specific question, i.e. "Would you be able to describe on what basis you suspect this to be a condition needing spiritual healing, ..." Thus my comments are limited to describing my thinking at this time and in this particular situation - the fact that physiological processes may or may not go unobserved or undefined might at some point change my analysis of the situation, but at this time and in this situation, this is how I came to this particular conclusion.

The second part of my answer is much more the "all encompassing" and general issue upon which I base many of my answers and which the momentary deficiencies of western medicine will have absolutely no bearing.

Fr David

Fr David

[NETvoyne]

Actually, very little good science has been done regarding the alleged "powers" of tai chi. There have been a lot of horribly-designed and pre-biased studies, but very little actual controlled study. What I have seen indicates that, while tai chi can be an effective exercise program, it is not inherently superior to other exercise programs except when high impact or high initial energy requirements are an issue. There is an actual risk specific to tai chi--it seems that chronic knee damage is more common among long-term tai chi practitioners. As for perceptions of "energy" and "alertness", they could easily be a placebo phenomenon. Practitioners expect to "gain energy" and "be more alert", so they are.

If one does it properly and is taught properly the results are unmistakable. (the knees issue is a problem if one is not properly balancing the body in the knees bent position by the work of large supportive muscles in the back, but making the small muscles hold up the whole structure...if one watches a child bend its knees this is the best proper example) The more interesting question is whether the Qi or 'universal life force' energy as undertsood and experienced from the Chinese metaphysics is something demonic or not...How does one 'test' such a thing?

[ImmimiFruff]

If one does it properly and is taught properly the results are unmistakable. This is true of any physical exercise regime. What makes tai chi better than pilates?

The more interesting question is whether the Qi or 'universal life force' energy as undertsood and experienced from the Chinese metaphysics is something demonic or not...How does one 'test' such a thing? As Orthodox Christians, I am not sure we really need to worry about it so much. The Church gives us what is necessary for salvation. It gives us the Body and Blood of Christ, it gives us the spiritual hospital. We seek first the Kingdom regardless of what Chinese metaphysics teaches. We have that which is needful, why search outside the Church for something extraneous? Why would anyone expect the Church to endorse those things not of the Church? Honestly?

Herman the Pooh

[Menierofe]

From an Orthodox view, and this is an Orthodox forum when last I checked, anything or any position that assumes we should not discuss things with our father confessor has to be suspect. If we are unwilling to hear what our father confessor has to say, how will we receive spiritual healing and edifying advice? We are not Baptists, we think about things a bit differently and we don't have to depend upon our own intellects to figure everything out. This is why Christ gave us the Church to begin with. He did not give us a book, He gave us Apostles and they gave us bishops and they appointed priest to lead His flock. We don't lead ourselves and obedience counts for something.

Or so it seems to this bear of little brain
Herman the Pooh