[santorio]

Umm, kids are a good thing for society. It is a forward thinking company that provides benefits for society in this way.

JM

[salomal-qask]

Why should you be treated equally? You are doing a whole lot less for society.

JM

[leareliovag]

The State Department is not your typical employer, but I woudl say here it cuts both ways. On the one hand, State is very accomodating to families, much moreso than to singles or childless couples. On the other hand, the jobs that can best boost your career in the State Department -- not just Iraq/Afghanistan tours, but domestic things like the Ops Center -- are not compatible with a normal family life. So it's kind of a wash.

[MwhwF6bp]

I think that the jobs and activities that best boost your career aren't really compatible with a normal family life anywhere... that is why people are having kids at later and later ages (Which is also not so great for your family, when you have kids at 40 and you are two generations removed from your children).

So there is already a selector against people with kids in the workplace, that is one of the reason why among the wealthy/educated in western society that number of children have gone down and age of first child has gone up.

And while teenagers having children is a bad thing, waiting until you are 40 is also (it isn't healthy for the woman, for one thing). The human body is at it's best for child raising in the 20s.

Of course, I don't have kids, am not even close to getting in a relationship to have kids, and don't see myself having kids in the forseable future (although I want some), so I am just like everyone else.

And the reason why, even on the relationship bit, is professional related. I purely haven't had time to spend the effort that it would require me to get in a relationship.

I mean, I hardly even talk to girls my age... I either work or relax, and while I should maybe change my relax time some... when I work real hard having very relaxing nonwork time is important.

Jon Miller

[Olphander]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I would venture to say that some kids are bad for society though

But anyway...like I tried to ask....is pay the same? At the wage-worker level, no. More hours = more pay. Also, wage-level workers tend to need to file for personal leave if they need to go take a kid to the doctor or see a school play, so family life ends up costing them money and benefits.

At the salary-worker level, gross pay tends to be the same. Net pay would differ, since the married person would be paying a lot more for medical coverage (covering the family). Also at the salary level, non-family workers probably get promoted more quickly because they have a greater capacity to slave for the Man.

[Filling25]

So, Oerdin...any immediate result when you pick up the slack? Like overtime pay or whatnot? Or is it just salary and no real effect until raises/promotions?

[Tndfpcin]

Employeers should be able to do whatever the hell they want.

[HottBrorb]

I believe there is a point when parents spend to much time with their kids anyway and it becomes counter productive.

[cenRealliat]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I believe there is a point when parents spend to much time with their kids anyway and it becomes counter productive. My obersvations doesn't agree with this at all. Most parents spend almost no time with their kids when their kids are older then 10 (and they should), and spend way less than they should when their kids are under 6.

Where do you find parents who spend too much time with their kids?

Jon Miller

[Tnzxovoz]

and who even knows if the married folks are telling the truth. The guy or woman could be at a bar geting drunk.

We had that in the navy. Married guys used every excuse in the book to get out early. Marred guys in the navy got it pretty sweet. They got paid more too.

[libertiespana]

They get paid BAQ to live off base.

Granted when I got out, they started giving E-5's (my rank) money to live off base if you were stationed on a ship. When I was in, we took it out of our own pockets. I lived in an apartment with 3 other guys. Wasn't bad splitting a 4 bedroom apartment 4 ways.

I think they also got more money if they had kids.

Yeah you could always live on the ship when in port. But it sucks being woke up 7AM on saturday morning with a hangover because some guy 2 decks above you is grinding on the steel deck.

[Zzvukttz]

I've got 3 kids and work is a blessed relief from them

[StincPriene]

Men with kids tend to be two things.

1. More productive.
2. Less likely to leave the company for other things.

I can't blame your employer. Before it used to work that you were very lucky as a single man to get jobs ahead of married men, just because it means less risk for the person who is hiring to hire someone who is married. I know if I was running a company I'd want the married men, and then if I couldn't fill all the positions, the single men for the job.

[Daruhuw]

In my experiance married people spend their time worrying/whining about their families than working.

[insightmike]

/me plays World's Smallest Violin for Oerdin

[Teeppoodiug]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Men with kids tend to be
1. More productive. Originally posted by Jon Miller
Why should you be treated equally? You are doing a whole lot less for society.
JM This kind of discriminatory and highly obnoxious thinking should be treated the same way as racism or sexism.

[teergoBissono]

I don't get the equality thing either. We should be equal when it comes to rating our performance. Performance counts, not what attributes you have or don't have.

That is, this directly would imply, that someone is worth less. I don't agree with it. Should we also not hire women because they are likely to become pregnant, and that's just not going to profit the business as much a man who can't become pregnant?

Then again, I don't think child care benefits etc are tools to deprive the other man from his salary, so no, I don't think this is an issue of equality. But generally, yes, Oerdin is equal to the man with a kid in the working place.

It's not even true that married men are more trustworthy or what ever productive. There are bunch of dads who are *******s. Even cockroaches have kids. Most people over 40 are parents. There are lots of stupid ****ing idiots aged 40 or more.

Plus, some jobs and companies would consider family as something that is hindering the employee. If you have to move a lot, if you have to put in a lot of hours. If you need to be ambitious and go crack those skulls.. a family man will have other things to do. Where's the production in that? There is none. It's the guys who stay and do the extra hours because others couldn't get in. They are the ones sacrificing, becuase family guys have 'more valuable free time'.

So no, I disagree with the whole notion of it. Everyone should be treated equally. I think this should be trivial in the 21st century.

[tuszit]

People who don't have kids, if they don't have a good reason, are being selfish

Oh, look, now we are required to have kids or else we are "selfish".

Please.... can you Christians at least TRY to stop yourself from telling people what to do with their bodies?

[KasaBalak]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly

I would have thought that the military used a standard Grade/Step pay system, just like the rest of the government. How did married guys get paid more? Married guys got to live off post even if they weren't an E-5 or E-6 so they got money for housing plus the military pays you extra for every dependent you have. It's an incentive for family guys to stay in the service. BAH/BAQ can be quite large in some areas and in San Diego it was around an extra $1450 for a single guy like me when I was in the service and I didn't even have any dependents.

[JNancy46]

I suppose when I have kids I'll like that I don't have to work evenings or weekends but it is a bit of a drag being told that so and so didn't complete their report that absolutely must go out before Monday but he's going camping with his family so I have to work on a Saturday to finish it for him. I was more pissed when I was salaried and didn't get over time but at least now I get paid extra for my extra work so there is progress. I'd say most people can't negotiate such a sweet heart deal as I did though.