[ElegeExcest]

I feel I've seen you here before. Or was that a Zarn?

[Hmntezmb]

LOL - I read the thread title as the premature concept. And when I saw that there were links to videoes in the post, I was like....WTF...he has posted videoes on ejaculation??

Asmodean

[VDAu5p33]

Permaculture is both a philosophy or lifestyle ethic as well as a design system which utilizes a systems thinking approach to create sustainable human habitats by analyzing and duplicating nature's patterns (ecology).

The word "permaculture," coined by Australians Bill Mollison and David Holmgren during the 1970s, is a Portmanteau-style contraction of permanent agriculture as well as permanent culture.

Renowned environmentalist Dr. David Suzuki has stated: "What permaculturists are doing is the most important activity that any group is doing on the planet."[1]

Today, permaculture can be described as a "moral and ethical design system applicable to food production and land use," as well as community design. It seeks the creation of productive and sustainable ways of living by integrating ecology, landscape, organic gardening, architecture, agroforestry, green or ecological economics, and social systems. The focus is not on these elements themselves, but rather on the relationships created among them by the way they are placed together; the whole becoming greater than the sum of its parts. Permaculture is also about careful and contemplative observation of nature and natural systems, and of recognizing universal patterns and principles, then learning to apply these ‘ecological truisms’ to one’s own circumstances in all realms of human activity.

Sounds silly.

[arrendabomnem]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Permaculture is both a philosophy or lifestyle ethic as well as a design system which utilizes a systems thinking approach to create sustainable human habitats by analyzing and duplicating nature's patterns (ecology).

The word "permaculture," coined by Australians Bill Mollison and David Holmgren during the 1970s, is a Portmanteau-style contraction of permanent agriculture as well as permanent culture.

Renowned environmentalist Dr. David Suzuki has stated: "What permaculturists are doing is the most important activity that any group is doing on the planet."[1]

Today, permaculture can be described as a "moral and ethical design system applicable to food production and land use," as well as community design. It seeks the creation of productive and sustainable ways of living by integrating ecology, landscape, organic gardening, architecture, agroforestry, green or ecological economics, and social systems. The focus is not on these elements themselves, but rather on the relationships created among them by the way they are placed together; the whole becoming greater than the sum of its parts. Permaculture is also about careful and contemplative observation of nature and natural systems, and of recognizing universal patterns and principles, then learning to apply these ‘ecological truisms’ to one’s own circumstances in all realms of human activity.

Sounds silly. I expect a 2000 word essay on why you think it is silly in this thread tomorrow morning (that's my tomorrow, thats about 15 hours from now), Mr VagueMan.

[otheloComRole]

Permaculture sounds nice for small like-minded communities. However, I can't see it becoming the norm in our world. Our world rests on a dramatic division of labour, which you can't hope to achieve if everybody becomes a peasant.

Besides, if everybody in this world had his private house and plant garden, the suburban sprawl would be absolutely frightening.

[happyman]

Originally posted by Sn00py
I expect a 2000 word essay on why you think it is silly in this thread tomorrow morning (that's my tomorrow, thats about 15 hours from now), Mr VagueMan. it's stock clueless-environmentalist fluff. There was absolutely nothing of substance in the part I quoted.

[GtmFeqJJ]

Originally posted by Eli
Permaculture is also about careful and contemplative observation of nature and natural systems, and of recognizing universal patterns and principles, then learning to apply these ‘ecological truisms’ to one’s own circumstances in all realms of human activity.

Hippies... Its not like people in Israel ever considered the relationships among different forms of agricultural technology and organization, social structure, culture and politics.

Gordon is even deader than I thought, I take it.

[SeftyJokipl]

Originally posted by Eli


This relationship is irrelevant in a society in which only a few percent of the population work in agriculture. Certainly Gordon expected a very large % to work in agriculture.

However one could, Im sure, come up with a theory in which changing the structure and mindset of even a modest part of society mattered. Certainly the impact of the kibbutzim on Israeli society from 1910 to about 1970 or so was far out of proportion to the numbers who lived on them (which was only a minority of the agricultural population - OTOH from the 1940s on there was considerable non-Ag economic activity on the kibbutzim) Im not sure how that relates to the theory referenced in the OP, though.

Im merely saying that a connection among all those things does not have to be hippy BS.

[violetgorman]

What's wrong with the videos is it requires a low density settlement pattern where there is room for sustainable forestry, having most food organically produced locally, etc... In short it sounds kind of like the self sufficient communion concepts of the 19th century. They just didn't work that well and they certainly don't work as well as our current system.

[Gakeincidoniac]

Not very inspiring.

[ZZtop]

im waiting for Narz to come back...
you all were so mean to him
cookies for Narz...
piece

[Eh085zE7]

Originally posted by Narz

Anyway, you're wrong about that (no offense). Anyone with even a quarter acre and a small back yard can start growing their own food.

A. That IS suburban sprawl, its much lower than metropolitan densities in most parts of the world.

B. You can grow SOME of your own food on that, but not all of it for a familyof 3 or 4 or more. Much less any other needs. So you still have to work at a job, which means you dont have much labor time left for the "farm" esp if you are using a labor intensive method of farming.

[Fellionas]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
B. You can grow SOME of your own food on that, but not all of it for a familyof 3 or 4 or more. Probably not all but every bit helps.

Much less any other needs. So you still have to work at a job, which means you dont have much labor time left for the "farm" esp if you are using a labor intensive method of farming. Permaculture is very un-labor intensive (beyond the initial setup). One of the beautiful things about it is that it's designed to be self-sustaining. That's what I love about Bill, he's very unashamedly lazy (and yet passionate about what's he's doing).

[Lhtfajba]

Originally posted by Narz

Probably not all but every bit helps. Well, hell, if I get time this weekend, I will probably plant some veggies in the back yard, maybe carrots, lettuce, something like that, and some herbs, probably basil, in the front. I will use no fertilizer or machinery, and rely on rainfall, etc.

[realnilkless]

Narz, have you considered eating dandelions? They're highly nutritious and grow absolutely anywhere, with no maintenance needed. Seriously, they're higher in vitamin A than just about any other food. You're quite capable of living off of dandelions and other weeds. Purslane is supposed to taste absolutely wonderful.

My PC doesn't have speakers and I'm on dialup, so I can't watch those videos. But in closing, I'd like to say that the word "permaculture" sounds really stupid.

[yasmin]

I agree with Kuci:

it's stock clueless-environmentalist fluff Though I'd replace "enviromentalist" with "primitivist nut". Sane, pro-technology enviromentalists like myself hate the woo woos.

[Casyimipist]

Originally posted by Eli


This relationship is irrelevant in a society in which only a few percent of the population work in agriculture.

Gordon is even deader than I thought, I take it.

I vaguely remember learning about some Gordon dude in primary school... I guess it's the same one you're talking about. Permaculture would be well suited to agricultural Kibbutzim.

[Xzmwskxn]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Here in the USA, some folks use the word "sprawl" for the movement of offices, and higher density residential development to the suburbs.

Which sort of is alright, cause such things, as theyre typically cited, do cause all the problems associated with sprawl, and so "antisprawl" planner types typically use the word that way as well. OTOH it can lead to some folks associating sprawl with increasing densities in general, and not understanding that traditional USA low density suburban development is "sprawl".

To some extent "sprawl" here means "any development I dont like" When I was at school we were taught about two kinds of sprawl in human geography. Urban sprawl and suburban sprawl.

Covers your two descriptions and differentiates the meanings, assuming they aren't then used interchangeably.