[Blellurgews]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
What's the freaking rage about Hamas crying over dead palestinian kids?


Aren't Hamas the ones that TARGETTED a youth disco club? Aren't Hamas those that attempted to drop boobie-trapped children's toys in Israeli parks?


Where does one get the f*king nerve to complain about palestinian children dying, when his stated political goal is to wipe out Israel? When his best reference is slaughtering Israeli school-children?



As for the incident itself - it is another mistake which is quite common in warfare... if you act for long enough times, a mistake will eventually occur. So I'll ask again, how many children did hamas kill lately ?

Make a mistake once, yes... make a mistake 100 times and it is not a mistake anymore. You have dropped to the same level as them.

[Jorcelirl]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You are aware that the laws of war where heavily rewritten after WW2 based upon the excesses of that war, right? It is now illegal to firebomb cities and every combatant must make reasonable attempts to limit civilian deaths. Certainly, but who enforces these laws?

[Abarricoss]

Well said Pekka

The problem however is: how are you going to sell to the Palestinians the notion that Hamas has to go? The only message you are sending them if you try to do that is that they only can elect the guys we (=the west) like.

[Relsenlilky]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
The point being that people are crying over the IDF killing innocent little kiddies because they expect a government to be better than a terrorist organisation and not kill innocent little kiddies. No, people are crying over the IDF killing innocent little kiddies because they're PR spokesmen for Hamas trying to spin Europe.

[ptmQqoxw]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


No, people are crying over the IDF killing innocent little kiddies because they're PR spokesmen for Hamas trying to spin Europe. I remeber Europe being fully supportive of any US actions after 911. Where was the spinning then, bath room boy ?

[rorsvierwelia]

It's pretty obvious some poeple don't care about kids if they are associated with a country or relatives of people in Hamas or who are ideologically close to Hamas.

As long as there are Jesus camps training future Jesus warrios, I don't see who is worthy of any spin.

Where's the spin in 'IDF launched an attack against Hamas' then number of casualties.?? This is what I heard, period. It usually includs the attack Hamas has perfomed earlier and that it is a response to this attack.

Bunch of spinmeisters??? It's now spinning to report what happened in two sentences, not giving out a single opinion, adding that it was a response? It also said Israel had apologized for the innceont deaths. Was that a Hamas spin as well?

IF oyu want to blame European media, you should know European media.

The fact is, msot of you only know Guardian and maybe two other papers and now you know European media? Shiiit.... the less you know the more you know?

All I hear is **** these kids, they should have known better, it's the fault of Hamas.

If that is not uberbiased thinking then I don't know what is. And take the plugs off of your ears, I'm not defending Hamas nor am I attacking Israel with these statements. I'm just promoting common sense.

[tabcdyop]

you reelected a president who started a war of agression. 50 years ago you hanged people for that. and you tell us what europe would do ?

[welihiedginly]

I just don't like when people are buying into stereotypes. "EUropean media is anti-Israel, European media blaa baa blaa", this is not a result of experience for most. This is repeating someone elses words.

I suggest you follow the media, the general concensus of media, THEN say what you will and then back it up.

But when enough people repeat the same stereotype, surely it becomes the truth? I just don't like the adoption of strong accusations without any experience or back up.

[N9NACzws]

Of course I only speak from my own experience. And I don't read Guardian. Of course there are papers that are full of crap.

I tend to never read news from places that have a stance on any issue. In my opinion, they should stick to reporting and not giving out opinions.

Factual reporting and nothing else. IDF responded and attacked Hamas. People died, including kids. Israel apologizes for deaths of innocent people but vowes to continue striking Hamas.

Fact.

There's just no spin in that. It's hard for a man to find a legit news organization that does not include Hamas into a terrorist group. This is what has been now suggested, that Hamas has not conducted in terrorism. This is a false statement. I'd like to read the paper that says otherwise.

Or that Europeans don't think Hamas has anything to do with terrorism? Come on.

[OnlineViagraCheapestFREE]

OK, if there's no spin then I guess Europeans still are latent anti-semites, and read from all the unbiased stories that Israel is the evil of the two.

[Teligacio]

And from what just came in, Finland is 1st in media freedom. HMmmmmm.. so are they just racist then? Or how was that study flawed, if it isn't true?

[Dndjzirw]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Siro,

People expect a government to be act differently than a terrorist organisation, otherwise, what's the moral difference? which might be a relevant point if Israel were sending suicide bombers into Pal restaurants, or firing rockets randomly at villages. Thats not whats occuring though, they are attacking valid targets. When a complete mistake occurs, it is investigated, because Israel IS morally different than Hamas.

[HRS1H7gO]

I don't think that is the difference, I mean, I do believe IDF spends very much time and effort to make clean hits. They do have a reputation of being able to target and execute with pretty good accurance on average.

They're always dealing with crowds and difficult scenarios.

I base my bias on the fact that Israel can control itself, whereas Hamas can not. Hamas promise is an empty promise. Even if they wanted to, there can always be other terrorist fractions willing to continue. And I don't believe they will stop.

So, counter or not, you would be facing attacks on civilians at all times no matter what. So what the IDF is doing, is what LOTM suggests, counter those, prevent some strikes before they happen etc.

There's tons of times when we hear that IDF did as trike on a group adn prevented an attack before it happened. Tons of those come out all the time, so IMO they have to be on that path even if they want it or not. Because they will get attacks, if they react or don't.

[AlissBart]

That convinced me! Damn all you racist Europeans! You're what's wrong with America!

[pXss8cyx]

Originally posted by dannubis
LotM,

You don't have to convince me that the Hamas is a cancer on the middle east making peace impossible.

However, The Israeli governement can say they try to avoid civilian casulties but in practice they kill more civilians than hamas who is actually targetting them. So basically, in practice Israel operates on the same level because your governement shows as little respect for human life as hamas does by accepting the "collateral" damage. Saying "it is an accident" works only so many times.
First of all, MY government is located in Washington DC, and is currently adapting to Tuesdays election. Lets get THAT straight right off. (youd think a US flag, a Virginia address, and sig quote from Hilary Clinton would have made that clear, but I guess not)

Second, I simply dont accept that when one side is trying to make peace, and the other is not, and one side is following the laws of war, and other is committing acts of terrorism, the side defending itself against terrorism has an obligation to only act until the civilian casualties are equal. How many Israelis, do you suppose would have died if Israel did NOT act decisively? Maybe alot more than have done so. Do you count palestinians killed by Hamas? "Informers" and "Collaborators" murdered after trial by kangaroo courts? Hamas vs Fatah violence? Does Israel have to keep seperate accounts for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade? What you propose is absurd.

Israel should certainly attempt to minimize civilian casualties as it pursues terrorists, for the sake of human life and for its own best interests. But it shouldnt have a "bag limit" based on the number of civilian Israelis killed. This isnt about revenge, and killing to get even, its about actions taken to prevent future terrorist acts.

[casinobonusnolimit]

I'm not even playing this childish game. Not only are you unable to show your original claims to be in the least bit true, you don't know your basic history.

I don't even go to as low as to say look in the mirror and your history, you africa hating, gay bashing, KKK having brat. I don't have to. It would be pointless, just like your arguments.

Grow up and educate yourself to basic level in domains you start debates, or act more humble and stop throwing your 'truths' you have no idea about.

[effenseshoora]

Kuci, listen, you better shut the **** up with your trolling. I'm seriously getting pissed off soon.

Do you realize, that some people actually do have living and dead relatives who fought in that war? They didn't decide, much like this country didn't decide to join the war when they were attacked.

Now you should stop trolling already. It's gone far enough.