[KacypeJeope]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
FWIW, I remember DD always being against the war. I was against starting the war. It was Agathon of all people that convinced me. I think it was the last time he's been right about anything. Now that we are there, I would like for us to be able to salvage something from the situation and minimize the gains Iran stands to make from the ill-concieved policy.

[Oxzzlvpg]

Point?

[Fainnamoony]

Well now we're back to the position that asks why I should care about someone being attacked when they don't even bother to defend themselves until loooong after the fact.

[RarensussyRen]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I was against starting the war. It was Agathon of all people that convinced me. I think it was the last time he's been right about anything. Agathon is usually right in romance threads.

[xanax-buy-online.com]

Originally posted by Ned
Now I'm certain he's running in '08. Oh yeah...he's running. Here is a recent speech...if that ain't campaign material than Carl Rove is a Bot Scout.

Kerry Speech

[brorwargy]

I still want to see all of Kerry's paperwork by the way. I suspect he is hiding a less than honorable discharge which got a Jimmy Carter upgrade.

[Illirmpipse]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
I certainly remember Ted being pro-war. I remember because, I was gone from Poly for a couple years, and I remember being like... wait, is that George Galloway?

In a way though, it restored a tiny bit of my faith in humanity knowing that insane posters could, when faced with reality, change their minds about things and select the exactly opposite batshit crazy position, unlike the guy we currently have in the White House. Fixed, bolding is mine.

[DoroKickcrofe]

Originally posted by Sikander


Fixed, bolding is mine. You must understand, in the meantime I had spent some time in a forum that made Newsmax seem like a commie pinko haven. Needless to say, those posters were far less flexible.

[Turbo-ip]

And now the jackals have come to feast?

[Txaizdxx]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


He is a sore loser who has better things to do, then or now.

We make fun of the fact that not only is he doing this, but he's doing it long past the time when it would matter at all. I don't disagree with most of what you say, however that doesn't mean that the Swift Boat asshats should get away with what they did. Who knows what impact they had on the election. Maybe some, maybe a lot, maybe very little. But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe their bullshit. And lying asshats like them have no place in a political race. What they did was wrong and they should pay the penalty. I really wish someone other than Kerry would have taken care of this whole mess when it occurred so that Kerry "sore loser" status would not even be an issue, because it's comparable to putting the victim on trial in a criminal proceding.

Kerry's motives are irrelevant, IMO. I am looking only at these Swift Boat *******s and what they did. Because honestly, the whole crap about Kerry being a sore loser, those type of accusations are exactly the same kind of childish personal attacks that the Swift Boaters would use as a defense. It's irrelevant and it doesn't make what they did right.

Like I said, I wish there was some indepedent advocate that would monitor a high profile political race and take care of situations like this so that asshats like these Swift Boaters couldn't just spew their garbage and get away with it. Because the end result is, the loser of the race has to face idiotic accusations of "sore loser" when he tries to get any sort of justice for the wrongs that were committed against him.

Again, I don't know the impact the Swift Boaters had on the election. I don't think it's possible to measure it. But there are always going to be retards who believe that bullshit.

Originally posted by TCO
It was definitely not a complete lie. I read the book in detail and several articles on the various allegations. Also talked directly with the Admiral and with Paul Galanti. The Washington Post had a very good article on the "no man left behind" where Kerry fled the scene when one boat was seriously damaged and then came back later. His behavior was the opposite of brave and he did not deserve the same award as the LT who crossed from his boat to the damaged boat to save it. Oh, I don't know why I just quoted this. It's completely irrelevant to my point. Disregard this block of text.

[freevideoandoicsI]

How can anyone not have an infatuation with Ted?

DON'T GET IT TWISTED

WORD UP

[levitratestimon]

Originally posted by TCO
Anyone want to get into specifics, let's bring it. This from Factcheck.org about the Swifties' charge that Kerry chased a lone, wounded teenager in a loincloth carrying an unloader rocket launcher behind a hooch and shot him in the back.

We have updated our Aug. 6 article on the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ad to include two new accounts that surfaced Aug. 22. One supported Kerry's account of the actions for which he was awarded the Silver Star, and the other supported Kerry's account of receiving enemy fire during the rescue for which Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star.

The Silver Star section has been updated to include the following:

On Aug. 22 an officer who was present supported Kerry's version, breaking a 35-year silence. William B. Rood commanded another Swift Boat during the same operation and was awarded the Bronze Star himself for his role in attacking the Viet Cong ambushers. He said Kerry and he went ashore at the same time after being attacked by several Viet Cong onshore.
Rood said he was the only other officer present. Rood is now an editor on the metropolitan desk of the Chicago Tribune, which published his first-person account of the incident in its Sunday edition. Rood said he had refused all interviews about Kerry's war record, even from reporters for his own paper, until motivated to speak up because Kerry's critics are telling "stories I know to be untrue" and "their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Rood described two Viet Cong ambushes, both of them routed using a tactic devised by Kerry who was in tactical command of a three-boat operation. At the second ambush only the Rood and Kerry boats were attacked.

Rood: Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ.

With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby.

Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation.

Rood disputed an account of the incident given by John O'Neill in his book "Unfit for Command," which describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." Rood said, "I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."



Also, the Bronze Star section has been updated to include the following:

On Aug. 22 the Washington Post quoted a new eyewitness in support of Kerry's version. The Post said it had independently contacted Wayne D. Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat directly behind Kerry's, and that Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47 assault rifles.

Langhofer: There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river. BTW: I do love TCO's wild speculation that because Silver Star and Bronze Star winner Kerry was granted an honorable discharge...it must have been faked.

[Arexytece]

Yep. His actions when in reserve status were enough to warrant that he did not deserve honorable discharge.

I'ld say the chances that Jimmy fixed his record so that he could pursue political office are quite high.

[sportbos]

Umm why did you change your self quote from

But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe their bullshit. to
But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe that bullshit. ?

I don't recall SBV's claiming Jimmy fixed his record, simply his conduct during Vietnam and the clearly documented and not in dispute actions after Vietnam (Paris negotiations, meeting with the North Vietnamese when expressly forbidden from doing so as an officer in the US armed forces, his fabricated statements in front of the Senate etc.)

TCO and I apparently believe his record was expunged when Jimmy decided it made sense to have an up and comer in the Democratic party. I don't recall SBV's making that claim. Its absolutely reasonable to think Nixon and Ford would have prevented his honorable discharge in light of his after war (and in my mind illegal and unbecoming an officer) activities.

[roundman]

Originally posted by Sava
do I think Jimmy Carter would use presidential power to mess with Kerry's record regarding that incident knowing it would become an issue sometime in the future?
Considering no one was able to get access to those records even in the midst of a presidential campaign, I would suspect no one ever thought it possible of becoming an issue, save for the fact that Kerry being a huge Dumbass ran as a war hero it wouldn't have.

[IteseFrusty]

I could give two shits whether he went or not, same for W. What I take offense to his is actions when he came back, and these more than any other merit him getting a dishonorable regardless of whether he was valorous. Heck Benedict Arnold was one of the most courageous veterans of the revolutionary war, doesn't mean he wasn't a traitor.

[SaamanthaSterlyng]

Calls em as I sees em.

Kerry is scum like Murtha is scum.

Only Murtha never attempted to negotiate with AQ whilst Kerry did try his hand with the N Vietnamese.