[cholleyhomeob]

Our friends should accept us for who and what we are, not who and what they are. If they cannot, perhaps the friendship should be looked at. Besides, this will give them an insight to religion I am sure they have never experienced before just as you are asking alot of good questions, perhaps they will as well. AND, after the pre-warning letter that has been suggested you send out is read, it is very possible many of them will decide not to attend anyway.

Remember, this is YOUR special day; not theirs. YOUR wedding; not theirs.

Keep in mind everything in Orthodoxy is symbolic of something. The crowns are not to represent the bride and groom as king and queen for a day as my priest puts it, but they represent the crowns of martyrdom we share for each other. We should be willing to die for each other and kill within us the passions that love us so as to present ourselves a spotless lamb to our spouse as we are to present ourselves spotless to Christ.

Paul

[Serttyfd]

I was just thinking - would I be able to carry flowers? And - this is something I actually object to on grounds of feminism, but I suspect my family would see it differently - would my father be able to walk with me or take me to the church door or some variation on the Anglican 'giving away'? My partner knows that the Orthodox church here is an ex-Anglican building, and he thought an Orthodox priest might marry us in an Anglican building, so long as there were the appropriate icons and so on. Has anyone heard of that?

The Theotokos was betrothed to St. Joseph, they were never actually "married" (Rejoice O unwedded Bride!). The betrothal is the exchanging of the rings and the "giving away". The couple is considered "obligated" at that point. I walked my daughter from the fellowship hall to the narthex and "gave her away" there. The betrothal for us is essentially what the west considers the marriage, we just take it one step further, as it were, with the crowning. I believe you can carry a bouquet, but remember that you will also need to be able to carry a lighted candle.

[lodsemelf]

Dear Liz,

In Europe it is usual to refer to one's boyfriend/girlfriend as partner and yes it is much more than that because it is a committed, serious relationship. So do not worry about it, go ahead and use it as you use it in your own culture (not that you need my permission ).

Your dad giving you away: Why not? From the car to wherever the priest is to meet you and your partner - for us the priest came to the door of the church and took us from there. He lead the way up to the church (chanting a hymn for the Theotokos and since the priest chanted so beautifully we really had a great entrance and people had time to take places). I do not know if this is just difference in customs but I have never seen Orthodox engagement in the narthex... everything is inside the church in the Greek tradition even here in US. And many s/f do not like the blessing of engagement before the wedding day because it will not be easy to break it, in case the couple changes their minds before getting married. Also there is another custom in Epiros (which is a part of Greece) the groom and family come on Sunday morning pick up the bride from her place (they enter the house have treats and refreshments while the families toast and celebrate this new unity; and then the groom and his family goes and waits for the bride to the car, while the bride is walked to the car by her dad, brother and her family). Then the couple drives together to the church. Yes, try to have your wedding on Sunday which is the Lord's Day and the Day of the Joy of the Resurrection. Saturday is the day when we commemorate the departed souls.

Of course you can have your bouquet. When your hands will be busy: one hand you hold each-other's hand and the other you hold the candle you can give the bouquet to someone to hold it, or even place it in the little altar table that is set up for your wedding. I gave my bouquet once to my sister in law and when she left with her little son cause he started making noise, I gave the bouquet to my mom in law and she placed it on the wedding table and that made for some very nice photos

The crowns are one of the most beautiful things. In addition to what friends have explained: The word 'crowns' in Greek is 'stephana' and it is the same word as the name of St. Stephanos who is the proto-martyr of Christianity. And then is the dance of Isaiah around the wedding table which is so moving and beautiful...

Also Andreas mentioned that the couple does not speak in the Orthodox Church, and our priest when he explained this during our wedding he said that the vows and what is said by the couple in today's weddings in other churches comes from paganism. I had no idea about that until my priest said that!

[ggandibazz]

This is true for a Greek wedding, but not for a Russian one...

Thank you, Olga, and sorry, Liz. I knew better and for some reason still managed to be irrelevant

Margaret

[hs6KnlcW]

Thank you, Olga, and sorry, Liz. I knew better and for some reason still managed to be irrelevant

Margaret

Don't worry, it's all very interesting! From my point of view, knowing about the cultural/regional differences is useful, because it reminds me that I'm not looking at some monolithic edifice, that there are differences in practice. Much less daunting to realize that not every aspect is seen in absolute terms.

But then we Protestants like adiaphora ;-)

[RemiVedia]

Olga, thanks, this helps me to understand. In your experience, what are the crowns like?

They should be quite light, but it pays to ask the priest a week or two beforehand to have a "test fit" if you'll be wearing the crown (not held aloft), and you have some idea how you'll wear your hair and veil. I had to pin some pieces of soft foam to the inside lining to stop the crown dropping over my eyes ...

On the matter of "taking your crowns/stephana home": While the Greeks do indeed take their wedding wreaths home, the Russians and other Slavs have another custom, which I feel is more beautiful and meaningful: wedding icons. Here is part of a post on the subject on another thread:

The couple obtains a matched pair of icons, one of Christ, one of the Mother of God, some time before their wedding day. These icons are blessed in church, then each icon is taken home: the Christ icon by the future groom, the Mother of God icon by the future bride. On the day of the wedding, before they each leave the house to go to the church, the bride and groom are blessed with the respective icon by their parent(s). The icons are brought to the church, and are placed on an icon stand in a prominent position for the duration of the wedding ceremony. At the end of the service, after the customary "words of wisdom" from the priest, he blesses the couple with the icons, which the couple then takes to their home. Almost without exception, the wedding icons are hung in the bedroom, traditionally in a corner at a 90 degree angle to each other.

http://www.monachos.net/forum/showth...60832#poststop


Another couple of practical considerations: Your wedding rings/bands will also need to be blessed beforehand, as do your wedding candles. Russian wedding candles are usually white, decorated with a ribbon or other such embellishment, and most usually, have a small icon of Christ (for the groom's candle), and the Mother of God (for the bride's candle) attached to them. These candles are held by the couple for much of the duration of the service.

You will also need a white cloth about a metre square, on which to stand. Satin with a lace edging is quite popular. Either a single cloth which is moved to the centre of the church after the betrothal service, or two cloths - one at the entrance to the nave (betrothal), and one in the middle of the nave (crowning). Some churches have their own cloths which are lent out for weddings, in other cases, the couple organises their own, either making their own (as I did), or borrowing those of another couple.

Hope this helps.

[AlabamaBoyz]

They should be quite light, but it pays to ask the priest a week or two beforehand to have a "test fit" if you'll be wearing the crown (not held aloft), and you have some idea how you'll wear your hair and veil. I had to pin some pieces of soft foam to the inside lining to stop the crown dropping over my eyes ...

On the matter of "taking your crowns/stephana home": While the Greeks do indeed take their wedding wreaths home, the Russians and other Slavs have another custom, which I feel is more beautiful and meaningful: wedding icons. Here is part of a post on the subject on another thread:

The couple obtains a matched pair of icons, one of Christ, one of the Mother of God, some time before their wedding day. These icons are blessed in church, then each icon is taken home: the Christ icon by the future groom, the Mother of God icon by the future bride. On the day of the wedding, before they each leave the house to go to the church, the bride and groom are blessed with the respective icon by their parent(s). The icons are brought to the church, and are placed on an icon stand in a prominent position for the duration of the wedding ceremony. At the end of the service, after the customary "words of wisdom" from the priest, he blesses the couple with the icons, which the couple then takes to their home. Almost without exception, the wedding icons are hung in the bedroom, traditionally in a corner at a 90 degree angle to each other.

The place of icons in the family home - Monachos.net Discussion Community


Another couple of practical considerations: Your wedding rings/bands will also need to be blessed beforehand, as do your wedding candles. Russian wedding candles are usually white, decorated with a ribbon or other such embellishment, and most usually, have a small icon of Christ (for the groom's candle), and the Mother of God (for the bride's candle) attached to them. These candles are held by the couple for much of the duration of the service.

You will also need a white cloth about a metre square, on which to stand. Satin with a lace edging is quite popular. Either a single cloth which is moved to the centre of the church after the betrothal service, or two cloths - one at the entrance to the nave (betrothal), and one in the middle of the nave (crowning). Some churches have their own cloths which are lent out for weddings, in other cases, the couple organises their own, either making their own (as I did), or borrowing those of another couple.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, it does. I suspect we'd not go for the icons since they're not part of my faith, though.

[Zavdpacq]

Thanks, it does. I suspect we'd not go for the icons since they're not part of my faith, though.

Your husband does not have icons in his space???

[8IhGpvH0]

Your husband does not have icons in his space???

Well, he's not my husband! But, yes, he does. When I first met him I found them difficult to relate to, but increasingly I appreciate them, particularly since I'm interested in iconography. However, while I do sometimes find the image of Christ from his icon in my mind when I am praying, I don't think of icons in the same way that my partner does. It would be inappropriate for me to pretend that I would treat an icon in the way intended, so it wouldn't be fair to ask the priest to bless one for me. That's how I see it, anyway.

[Madjostok]

Olga - I meant to ask, what's the reason behind the white cloth?

(Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions! It's making me feel so much less nervous about the whole thing.)

[Dwencejed]

Well, he's not my husband! But, yes, he does. When I first met him I found them difficult to relate to, but increasingly I appreciate them, particularly since I'm interested in iconography. However, while I do sometimes find the image of Christ from his icon in my mind when I am praying, I don't think of icons in the same way that my partner does. It would be inappropriate for me to pretend that I would treat an icon in the way intended, so it wouldn't be fair to ask the priest to bless one for me. That's how I see it, anyway.

Ha ha ha sorry for marrying you two before the time. It was just a mistake.

Ok I see we should not pretend of course... but relationships are about give and take no? And when you say "I suspect we'd not go for the icons since they're not part of my faith" I just imagined you would not have your husband to be to have icons in his own home. Maybe I read it wrong... sorry.

[DoctorTentonyya]

Ha ha ha sorry for marrying you two before the time. It was just a mistake.

Ok I see we should not pretend of course... but relationships are about give and take no? And when you say "I suspect we'd not go for the icons since they're not part of my faith" I just imagined you would not have your husband to be to have icons in his own home. Maybe I read it wrong... sorry.

Don't worry about it. I think it's easy to get concerned, especially since I've found that people from both Churches are inclined to be a little bit wary about this - it's a bit like the family sizing you up and thinking, 'is s/he good enough for one of ours, then?'. My mother is forever fussing about how we eat during fast periods - and we haven't even told them we're thinking about getting married yet! I suspect I will be in for a lot of comments about the ceremony...

I'm not sure what you're wanting to say when you say relationships are about give and take? My partner has his icon corner, but surely it would be wrong for me to have an icon blessed by a priest who *knows* I don't venerate the saints in that way? I mean, there's compromise, and then there's conversion, and they are two different things.

[TpDoctorOneTp]

My partner has his icon corner, but surely it would be wrong for me to have an icon blessed by a priest who *knows* I don't venerate the saints in that way? I mean, there's compromise, and then there's conversion, and they are two different things.

This is a matter where you may need to talk to the priest to put your mind at ease. Personally, I can't see anything wrong with wedding icons being blessed and the knowledge that only one of the couple is Orthodox. If the Russian priest is allowing you to marry in his church, then I can't see him objecting to blessing your wedding icons. The icons are emblematic of the sanctity of marriage, a union blessed by God, and your wedding is certainly not the first time a mixed marriage will be taking place.

Regarding the white cloth on which the couple stands: It symbolises the moral purity which must be established between husband and wife.

(Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions! It's making me feel so much less nervous about the whole thing.) Happy to be of help. You're among friends here.

[elton]

You will also need a white cloth about a metre square, on which to stand. Satin with a lace edging is quite popular. Either a single cloth which is moved to the centre of the church after the betrothal service, or two cloths - one at the entrance to the nave (betrothal), and one in the middle of the nave (crowning). Some churches have their own cloths which are lent out for weddings, in other cases, the couple organises their own, either making their own (as I did), or borrowing those of another couple. How interesting this Russian custom is...also the beautiful explanation Olga provided.
L. Allen, you are in good hands here! Our Olga is not only an awesome person but also an awesome resource of Orthodox knowledge.

God bless...Alice

[sniskelsowwef]

Don't worry about it. I think it's easy to get concerned, especially since I've found that people from both Churches are inclined to be a little bit wary about this - it's a bit like the family sizing you up and thinking, 'is s/he good enough for one of ours, then?'. My mother is forever fussing about how we eat during fast periods - and we haven't even told them we're thinking about getting married yet! I suspect I will be in for a lot of comments about the ceremony...

I'm not sure what you're wanting to say when you say relationships are about give and take? My partner has his icon corner, but surely it would be wrong for me to have an icon blessed by a priest who *knows* I don't venerate the saints in that way? I mean, there's compromise, and then there's conversion, and they are two different things.

Sorry you anticipate a lot of comments about your ceremony... it is not easy I know. I do not know you both but of course you are good enough lol. I mean you are coming here and inquiring about Orthodoxy for the sake of your partner.

Yes give and take it was about compromising (since the conversion hasn't happened yet) for I thought you would not allow icons in your home. But now that I see where you come from I get the larger picture, thank you for explaining. Olga's advise is very good in general and about this in particular. And I also just can tell you that icons are an additional blessing for your future family and you both as a couple. Icons will only bring blessings to you.

[Sleedyhex]

Thanks Alice and Olga, so much!

Nina, thanks for being so understanding. I know that sometimes the alarm bells ring, but usually if I say something that sounds worrying, it's because I haven't quite realized the differences between Anglicanism and Orthodoxy, or secular culture and Orthodoxy, rather than because I'm planning to impose my expectations on my partner.

I'm sure I'll come back with more to ask once my partner has spoken more with his priest ... many thanks for now :-)

[xrumerang]

Yes, Alice, I would love to say that! But at the moment (although we did go to look at engagement rings today) we've not announced anything to anyone, let alone setting a date etc. So he really is just my partner. :-)

How about "lover"?

[Nesskissabe]

How about "lover"?

Um, we tend to use that to mean something a bit different!

[XU8i6ysK]

That would be insinuative of something that is 1) none of our business and 2) nothing she has alluded to.

Paul

[JeremyIV]

I was just thinking - would I be able to carry flowers

Certainly - however, as has been noted, your hands will become very busy - thus you will need someone to hold your flowers for you at times (a maid of honor is good for this)

for us the priest came to the door of the church and took us from there. He lead the way up to the church (chanting a hymn for the Theotokos

Customarily, although it is not specified in the service book, the bride comes first to the door of the Church, where the betrothal takes place, and a hymn to the Mother of God is sung. The groom then joins her and a different hymn (I have a variety of things we have used) is sung. This is the point where the wedding icons play an important part. The bridal party is led by the icon of the Virgin. When the bride stops at the door, the person (usually a bridesmaid, but could be anyone) carrying the icon takes it to the front and sets it on a stand and returns to the bridal party. The groom's party is led by the icon of Christ is which similarly set on a stand at the front. These are often given to the couple by their parents together. In "olden days" these icons were often family heirlooms passed from father to son and mother to daughter. In modern times, they are often newly painted. Both of my children married spouses whose families are not Orthodox and so we gave them the icons solely as our own gift.

Thanks, it does. I suspect we'd not go for the icons since they're not part of my faith, though.

Not an option. They have an important place in the ceremony. See above.

Fr David Moser