[Salliter]

Customarily, although it is not specified in the service book, the bride comes first to the door of the Church, where the betrothal takes place, and a hymn to the Mother of God is sung. The groom then joins her and a different hymn (I have a variety of things we have used) is sung. This is the point where the wedding icons play an important part. The bridal party is led by the icon of the Virgin. When the bride stops at the door, the person (usually a bridesmaid, but could be anyone) carrying the icon takes it to the front and sets it on a stand and returns to the bridal party. The groom's party is led by the icon of Christ is which similarly set on a stand at the front. These are often given to the couple by their parents together. In "olden days" these icons were often family heirlooms passed from father to son and mother to daughter. In modern times, they are often newly painted. Both of my children married spouses whose families are not Orthodox and so we gave them the icons solely as our own gift.

Oh my God this so beautiful dear Father (thank you for taking the time to describe it for us all), and it made me happy and have tears at the same time! We do not have this custom (and I have never witnessed it) and I wish we did because it is really beautiful. I wanted to have these 2 icons together with the crowns we have here at home. This sounds really so beautiful and a dream for me it is like a churchy fairytale event.

Weddings on Saturdays are not permitted in the Orthodox Church as this is a day of preparation to receive the Holy Mysteries. (BTW, your future husband will have to fast and prepare in order to receive the Mysteries on the day of your wedding (or the nearest day possible before - thus he, or the both of you, will attend the Liturgy that morning and then the wedding will come later in the day.) Wow! I did not do this '

Not quite true -there are two questions that the bride and groom must answer properly at the betrothal: 1. Are you here of your own free will and 2. Have you promised yourself to another person. Hopefully the answers will be 1. yes and 2. no from both of you, otherwise the wedding itself cannot continue. Really, Father? I see... We never spoke even during the betrothal... no one asked us. And of course this is not in the realm of promises and vows. And I think that the priest presiding over our wedding meant about the vows that couples give to each other and promisses to love each other etc. I think for this he meant it originated from paganism and he said we never can promise anything to God since we are sinners and break them.

[jesyflowers]

Thanks, Father David, for taking the time to explain all of this! It makes a lot of sense. I may come back and ask more questions when my partner has spoken to his priest - I stress that it was only his vague idea that it might be sensible to have the ceremony in an Anglican church, since his church is in the process of moving and in any case has been using Anglican church buildings.

Forgive me for asking, but could you explain why it is 'not an option' to refuse the paired icons Olga speaks of? My understanding was that she is referring to icons that are separate from those carried by the couple during the ceremony, or am I incorrect? Surely the Church cannot require me to venerate an icon for the rest of my marriage - this would make a mockery of the concept of marriages between Orthodox and Protestant Christians. It also seems to me, frankly, that one cannot and should not simulate faith

[intmarkworkk]

Forgive me for asking, but could you explain why it is 'not an option' to refuse the paired icons Olga speaks of? My understanding was that she is referring to icons that are separate from those carried by the couple during the ceremony, or am I incorrect?

There are no icons that you personally carry during the wedding. The icons that will belong to your household will precede the bride and groom as they come to the Church and these icons then will go home with you and form the basis of your icon corner.

Surely the Church cannot require me to venerate an icon for the rest of my marriage - this would make a mockery of the concept of marriages between Orthodox and Protestant Christians. It also seems to me, frankly, that one cannot and should not simulate faith No one is forcing you to do anything here, but you are of your own free will and choice marrying an Orthodox person in the Orthodox Church and thus you will be maintaining an Orthodox household. You will be obligated to respect and in as much as possible within your home keep the feasts and fasts of the Church; you will no doubt have an icon corner in your home for family prayers; your children will be baptized, chrismated and raised in the Orthodox faith. Whether or not you participate in the spiritual life of the home (a little church in Orthodox teaching) is up to you, however, you must be willing to encourage your husband and children to participate in that life.

A mixed marriage is not an easy thing for as long as you remain separated from the Church you will remain cut off from the life of your family in some very important and vital aspects. I don't say this to be cruel, but so that you know what you will face 10, 15, 20, 50 years down the road. If you do not know then you will find it harder to endure as time goes by and that would place your marriage in jeopardy.

Fr David Moser

[avaiptutt]

I think perhaps I have been unclear. I am not Orthodox, nor a catchumen, nor an agnostic. We have an icon corner here at home, and we fast together and sometimes pray together. Our spiritual life is therefore shared.

[kazinopartnerkae]

The expectation of an Orthodox marriage is that the family will participate in the Orthodox lifestyle. If one family member is not willing to do that then both parties need to go into this wide-eyed with the understanding there will "probably" be problems down the road. An Orthodox spouse is bound to raise his/her family as Orthodox.

It's like going to dinner at a pizza parlor. We're all going to go eat pizza. If one member chooses not to, that is their choice, but the rest of the family is going to eat pizza or else why go to the pizza parlor in the first place? The one member will go hungry.

It's not that Orthodoxy is being "pushed" on a nonbelieving potential spouse, but it IS the expectation of the Church that the marriage will live according to the Church's understanding of marriage and not the couples.

Paul

As far as the implications of the last two sentences, that is something his priest will need to discuss with you both.

[catermos]

Our spiritual life is therefore shared.

Only, I have to say, in a very attenuated way if you are not Orthodox. The spiritual life of an Orthodox Christian is inextricably bound up with the Orthodox faith and the sacraments of the Church. You may fast with your husband-to-be: but for what? Fasting is a spiritual preparation for an Orthodox feast. But you will not be able to participate in that feast. And it is forbidden for him to participate in the services of your church. Consider this: you will never be able to share Easter together. Sorry to be blunt. Anyway, what's stopping you from becoming Orthodox?

[R1king]

Only, I have to say, in a very attenuated way if you are not Orthodox. The spiritual life of an Orthodox Christian is inextricably bound up with the Orthodox faith and the sacraments of the Church. You may fast with your husband-to-be: but for what? Fasting is a spiritual preparation for an Orthodox feast. But you will not be able to participate in that feast. And it is forbidden for him to participate in the services of your church. Consider this: you will never be able to share Easter together. Sorry to be blunt. Anyway, what's stopping you from becoming Orthodox?

My dear Andreas:

A look at 1 Peter 3:1-7 is most useful in this situation.

[QHdy5Z3A]

Only, I have to say, in a very attenuated way if you are not Orthodox. The spiritual life of an Orthodox Christian is inextricably bound up with the Orthodox faith and the sacraments of the Church. You may fast with your husband-to-be: but for what? Fasting is a spiritual preparation for an Orthodox feast. But you will not be able to participate in that feast. And it is forbidden for him to participate in the services of your church. Consider this: you will never be able to share Easter together. Sorry to be blunt. Anyway, what's stopping you from becoming Orthodox?

Your question is a good one, and one I have spent a lot of time on, but finally I cannot reconcile my beliefs to those of the Orthodox Church. I do not think of the Eucharist as the Orthodox Church does; while I respect the Church Fathers as immensely wiser and more blessed with insight that I could ever be, I do not set their interpretations on a par with Scripture. I do not venerate the saints represented through icons.

I think the popular reputation of the Anglican Church can sometimes be misleading. It's true that it is a deliberately inclusive Church that brings together many different strands of belief, not always easily and not always to the mutual satisfaction of its members. However, I must point out that, as far as I am aware, the Anglican Church also requires its members to bring up their children in the faith of the Church, while accepting marriages between Anglicans and members of other faiths. I am sure that both my vicar and my partner's priest will be firm on this issue: that is their duty. We do not yet know what we will do, and we need to speak to both at greater length. However, a person who does not bring their children up in the knowledge of the Anglican Church is not an Anglican, so if the Orthodox Church requires there to be no knowledge of any other faith in the home, then necessarily it does *not* permit marriages between Orthodox and Anglican couples.

[mpegdvdclip]

My dear Andreas:

A look at 1 Peter 3:1-7 is most useful in this situation.

Ooohh, thanks for that, Olga! I'll quote the first eight words to my wife!!!

[interbaoui]

[QUOTE=L. Allen;80803]Your question is a good one, and one I have spent a lot of time on, but finally I cannot reconcile my beliefs to those of the Orthodox Church. I do not think of the Eucharist as the Orthodox Church does; while I respect the Church Fathers as immensely wiser and more blessed with insight that I could ever be, I do not set their interpretations on a par with Scripture. I do not venerate the saints represented through icons.

Dear Liz,

The Orthodox belief about the eucharist is based on Scripture; the Fathers commented on Scripture, the words of which are clear:

'Take, eat: this is my body' - 'Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood' Matthew 26:26-28
'Take, eat: this is my body' - 'This is my blood'
Mark 14:22-24
'I am the bread of life' - 'I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh' - 'Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life.'
John 6:50-51, 53-54
See also 1 Corinthians 11:23-30.

The Orthodox eucharistic canon spoken by the priest simply repeats these words and invokes the Holy Spirit to give them effect. (Do those who doubt what happens think that the Holy Spirit can't do this? )

As for icons, many Anglican churches have them. There are threads here about icons.