[esenesesinas]

Hi & Happy New Year to everybody on this forum!

I am new here and even though I could have talked to one of the fathers at my local Church about this issue, I would prefer a wider base of opinions on the subject. My question is not as spiritual as some of the others on this forum but I just wanted to put it to a wider audience of like minded people like yourselves.

For about six months now, I've had this strong desire to get a tattoo. One of those upper arm Tribal Flame or Celtic Cross Tattoos (nothing against religion). I've included body piercings in the title simple because it is a related issue and also something I considered doing in the past.

So my question is; Is it wrong of me to get a Tattoo, and is there anything in our religion that specifies us not having tattoo's or body piercings?

Thanks,

Nikola Novakovic

[Optosypoeds]

In Egypt, Christians (generally the Copts) sometimes have a cross tattoo on their hands or sometimes the forehead. This is mainly (I'm told) to keep Christian women from being taken by Moslems.

Beyond that, would you pierce an icon? Or write on the walls of the Church? Our bodies are temples and we are icons of Christ.

I don't think too many priests or bishops get overly upset about modest ear piercings or innocuous or inconspicuous tattoos, but the question becomes WHY does someone get a tattoo or excessive piercings? Isn't it to draw attention to themselves? Even if that is not the intention, it is generally the result. Is this a good thing for a Christian to do? Is it a proper and worthy witness to Christ in them?

The Fathers tell us it is better to adorn ourselves with charity and alms than with fine linen, jewels, and body modifications. I wouldn't say you can't or you shouldn't but I would check with your priest before doing something that will "mark" you for the rest of your life.

[movlabs]

In the OT tattoos are forbidden.

I am not sure about piercings. I have one piercing per ear. And of course as a bad sinner I am, I adorn myself with vain things, but not with permanent ones.

[DavidShreder]

There is a rather extensive thread on this topic located here - some of its contents good, some less than useful.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[BritneySpearsFun@@@]

Thank you all for your quick replies on the subject, as they have been useful.

Cheers,

Nikola Novakovic

[Zarekylin75]

Hi & Happy New Year to everybody on this forum!

I am new here and even though I could have talked to one of the fathers at my local Church about this issue, I would prefer a wider base of opinions on the subject. My question is not as spiritual as some of the others on this forum but I just wanted to put it to a wider audience of like minded people like yourselves.

For about six months now, I've had this strong desire to get a tattoo. One of those upper arm Tribal Flame or Celtic Cross Tattoos (nothing against religion). I've included body piercings in the title simple because it is a related issue and also something I considered doing in the past.

So my question is; Is it wrong of me to get a Tattoo, and is there anything in our religion that specifies us not having tattoo's or body piercings?

Thanks,

Nikola Novakovic

Herman has already mentioned crosses on foreheads and I have also seen a woman with a cross on her forehead just above her nose - she came from a remote village in the northernmost part of Greece. I don't know whether it was a tattoo or not.

I had my ears pierced when I was a baby as was usual in those long ago days.

Our bodies are holy but, as we all know, we abuse them in lots of ways i.e. overeating, being inactive, downing pain killers as if they were lollies etc.

I think the important thing is to ask yourself why you feel the need to do this. Are all tattoos permanent? What if you change your mind about your tattoos later on in your life?

Effie

[HOTgirlsXXL]

In Egypt, Christians (generally the Copts) sometimes have a cross tattoo on their hands or sometimes the forehead. This is mainly (I'm told) to keep Christian women from being taken by Moslems.

.

I have also heard of angry parents when they find out their children converted to Christianity would brand, as in cattle branding, a cross on their forehead 1) to disfigure them and 2) to tell the whole world they are Christian. or rather non-Muslim.

Paul

[L8fGLM4d]

I have seen Ethiopian and Eritrean women with crosses tattooed on their foreheads.

[Licacivelip]

Sorry, I'm new to the forum and reviving all these old threads! I became a catechumen recently, I have a few tattoos, all on my back, from before I became Christian - except for the last one which was a small cross, from becoming Christian:-)

I have heard that the passage in Leviticus about not scarring or marking the body had to do with the practice back then of doing so for the worship/remembrance of pagan gods. i don't know what a priest would say about it though, since I've never asked one.

I can see how people would see the body as a temple too though, and that it shouldn't be disfigured if you really respect the way God made it.....but then, I've also been asked how in the heck I could possibly wax my legs and cause myself all that pain while still respecting myself and my body....and I even heard one Jew comment that if disfiguring the body was a sin to God, then what about all the plastic surgery she was seeing among young Jewish women she knew? So who knows in the end. I would just listen to a trusted priest I guess? I mean, it could be that tattoos are out, but doing things like make up, waxing, plastic surgery are okay....but then, I also think many people have a biased reaction against tattoos in particular. I'd be curious to hear what the fathers you've asked said.

[pitoufsd]

The canons forbid bodily mutilation, and usually tattoos and peircings will fall under that caregory (although economia can be used in its interpretation). Your SF will probably ask you to not get anymore. In Judaism a person with a tattoo is forbidden burial in a jewish cemetary. Regardless of jewish practises, what holds true for Orthodoxy which is in common with judaism is that its frowned upon to pierce the flesh for a non-medical reason.

[Candykiss]

In the OT tattoos are forbidden.

I am not sure about piercings. I have one piercing per ear. And of course as a bad sinner I am, I adorn myself with vain things, but not with permanent ones.

Same here, Nina...

As for tatoos, which one sees more and more on young adults here on the beaches of Greece, I still feel what I have always felt: that they are just plain ugly!

It is kind of strange that people spend good money to either look tan or to rid their bodies of any kind of scar, veins, moles, etc., so that their skin will be a uniform color, yet with tattoos they are doing the reverse and actually applying a permanent scar...

Ofcourse much of this can be chalked up to the 'folly' of today's youth and their culture which now has been prolonged to the age of thirty! Perhaps it is a 'sign' that one belongs to that culture. One rarely sees a middle aged person get one.

Alice

[ayWCZ7VT]

OR.....some people just have different tastes from other people who hate tattoos. I know that concept blows the mind, but trust me - I know a lot of happy, healthy, well-adjusted people who just think they are cool. Including myself. I mean, if my spiritual father told me not to get anymore, I wouldn't, plain and simple, but I don't see any need to make all kinds of extra judgement and baggage onto it....it's like that old saying, the only people who care so much about tattoos are the ones who don't have them:-)

Same here, Nina...

As for tatoos, which one sees more and more on young adults here on the beaches of Greece, I still feel what I have always felt: that they are just plain ugly!

It is kind of strange that people spend good money to either look tan or to rid their bodies of any kind of scar, veins, moles, etc., so that their skin will be a uniform color, yet with tattoos they are doing the reverse and actually applying a permanent scar...

Ofcourse much of this can be chalked up to the 'folly' of today's youth and their culture which now has been prolonged to the age of thirty! Perhaps it is a 'sign' that one belongs to that culture. One rarely sees a middle aged person get one.

Alice

[DoctorWeryDolt]

Dear Anjali,

Please forgive me for insulting you. That was definitely not my intent. I think that our skin is beautiful and shouldn't be marked, but that is just my opinion. As the French say: chacun a son gout!

In Christ,
Alice

[Lotyqnag]

I believe that the main reason people get tattoos is to draw the attention of others to that particular part of their body.

This morning while I was shopping this extremely good looking young man - a university student - came in. He was wearing those 3 quarter length sports trousers we see nowadays and on his calf he had a tattoo.

Without meaning to, my eyes went to the tattoo. The boy's eyes were also a beautiful deep blue - something God created - but this natural beauty was ignored for his tattoo and his calf..........................................



Good thing the tattoo was on his calf, another customer remarked after he had left.........................

[Nubtoubrem]

it's like that old saying, the only people who care so much about tattoos are the ones who don't have them:-)

Since we are talking about tattoos in two separate threads, I though I would reactivate this one. I took this from Joseph Baxter's album. I hope he does not mind. I thought the text was interesting from an Athonite priest.

I thought Joseph's baptism pictures were awesome in and of themselves. But the tattoo comment stands out to me.

Paul

[Mello]

You know, it seems to me that it doesn't matter what we personally think about tattoos and piercings. Once we become Orthodox Christians we must accept the teachings of the Church throughout the ages. The Church teaches we should not scar (tattoo) or pierce our bodies. Thus, when we join ourselves to Her, we must no longer do these things. Just as we must no longer commit fornication, or adultery, no longer steal, and no longer commit murder. We must realize we are making a choice to sin if we then decide to commit these acts.

At the time I was Chrismated, so many years ago, now, I, too, had a tattoo (hidden) and a single piercing in each ear. I have not added any, although reluctantly. It simply cannot be a choice for me anymore.

I think we must be careful when making the decision to become Orthodox. We need to understand that we must give up many of our desires in order to attain that which we seek - the Kingdom of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Heb 10:31

But even if we fell "nilly-willy" into Orthodoxy, that still wouldn't excuse us from obeying the teachings of the Church throughout the ages. Once we are Orthodox we need to follow the teaching of the Church through the ages - no matter our personal desires. I encourage all of you to speak to your Spiritual Father / Confessor about it if you have questions.

Love in Christ
Dr. Elizabeth, the sinner
and Perennial Student

[Finanziamento]

When I hear that someone, or myself, has "a strong desire" for anything, my first instinct is to think of what that strong desire is for, if that desire is a good one, from whence that desire comes (God, satan, or my own whimsy). Please, consult an experienced spiritual father on this matter.

As for citing Copts and Ethiopians having tattoos, this in itself is meaningless as a reason for an Orthodox Christian to get a tattoo. What are the positions of the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches on tattoos? They could be very much against them. These incidents could just be a folk practice. Well, frankly, there are many folk practices which would be banned by the Church, but are still practiced by Orthodox Christians, and even given some sort of popular spiritual dimension. There must be proper discernment in order to distinguish what is authentically Orthodox, and what is passed off as such.

[i32I7qyH]

As for citing Copts and Ethiopians having tattoos, this in itself is meaningless as a reason for an Orthodox Christian to get a tattoo

A couple of thoughts on this. First is that both the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian Church are not within the mainstream of the Orthodox Community (as they are non-chalcedonian; I do not make the statement that they are not the Church, that is a matter for bishops and councils, not the likes of me), therefore their traditions may not be consistent with the practices of those in the mainstream Orthodox Churches. Second, the practice of tattooing in the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches, if they are part of the praxis of the Church, are part of a greater whole and thus in order to use this argument to justify a tattoo, one would have to adopt the whole of the Coptic or Ethiopian practice rather than pick and choose what you like.

Fr David Moser

[VUzgOhgv]

If you have to ask then don't get it. Getting a tattoo is a temptation, isn't it? You can figure out the rest for yourself.