[Poeetiol]

As I said in my introduction thread, I'm writing a mystery story centered around the Coptic Church in England. One poster here, Peter Ferrington, a member of the Coptic Church in England, has been kind enough to agree to help me (thank you, Peter!), but I may post some questions in this thread for general input. Right now I'm in the middle of brainstorming.

The frightening thing about mysteries is that you sometimes have to think like the bad guy. Well, you have to do that in most fiction at some point, but in mysteries, you really do have to think like a killer/thief, etc. So, if I start proposing ways I might have to bump someone off, please don't be weirded out. It's my fictional bad guy who's going to do it (and get caught!!) not me.

I've already written two companion stories to this one and they will appear in either a mystery anthology as a collection or be printed as a collection unto themselves. These stories are to be published next year sometime.

Now - the premise is this. It's Sherlock Holmes. In the Sherlock Holmes stories, Dr. Watson often haphazardly mentions cases and never writes about them. Three of these were church-related topics. The two I've written already involve the Church of Rome, which, of course, I belong to, so they were easy to do (well, not entirely easy, but easiER). The third is a story of "the two Coptic patriarchs"--and this story is why I'm here.

Now, my goal in writing these was to show the traditional church sympathetically (something that's not done much these days in the wake of Dan Brown). So, I need to understand a bit more to truly reflect the Coptic Church accurately and with great sympathy.

My first question is, therefore - what's the breakdown of hierarchy in the Coptic Church? Is it something like that in the Church of Rome? Namely - Pope-Patriarch-Bishop-Priest-Brother/Nun?

Just want to understand who answers to whom first. Let's start there.

And thank you all for input. God bless you!
--Ann

[finnmontserrat]

My first question is, therefore - what's the breakdown of hierarchy in the Coptic Church? Is it something like that in the Church of Rome? Namely - Pope-Patriarch-Bishop-Priest-Brother/Nun?

Hi,

The "breakdown" is - as far as I'm aware - the same as it is in the Eastern Orthodox Churches:
Bishop, priest and deacon. Monastics are not part of the holy priesthood. According to St Basil, monks and laymen differ only in that one gets married while the other doesn't.

Pope is merely an honorary title that has is held by the Patriarch of Alexandria (the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria is also called Pope), and does not correspond to the position held by the Pope of Rome within Catholicism.

The Patriarch is essentially the head of the Holy Synod, which is the governing body of each local church (remember, the Coptic Church is just one local church within the Oriental Orthodox Church, along with six others).

I'm sure others will be able to give you a more detailed answer.

In XC,
Kris

[yatrahnualenu]

A slight correction, Kris:

Monks can, of course, become priests, though hieromonks/priest-monks normally are not assigned to a parish, but conduct their liturgical duties in monasteries, including visiting women's monasteries to conduct services.

[pharmaclid]

First off, it is simply not like the Catholic Church presently is. The bishop is the head of the local church. Technically, all bishops have the same authority, except that the Patriarch is the "chief" bishop, sort of the chairman of the board. The Patriarch has authority to perform certain sacramental rites that other bishops do not, such as the blessing of the Holy Chrism, which is used to anoint the newly baptised. Bishops have the authority to ordain priests. Priests are the bishops representatives in the parishes and have only such authority as the bishop assigns them, but can bless and consecrate the Eucharist. Deacons assist the priests and can administer the Eucharist if it has already been consecrated by a priest or bishop. Deacons and priests are under the authority of a specific bishop. Monastics are sort of independent. Although our priests and deacons can be married, our bishops are generally selected from the monastics, although this is not always the case. But monastics, per se, do not hold an "official rank". I am not sure if this hold true with the Coptic Church, perhaps Peter F can verify, but Orthodoxy also has two lower clerical ranks, that of subdeacon and reader. The subdeacon's main duty is to attend the bishop. The reader chants and more specifically is responsible for proclaiming the Epistle during worship.

[NEronchik]

A slight correction, Kris:

Monks can, of course, become priests, though hieromonks/priest-monks normally are not assigned to a parish, but conduct their liturgical duties in monasteries, including visiting women's monasteries to conduct services.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant that monasticism is not a priestly office in and of itself - I was not refering to those monks who had been ordained to priestly office.

In XC,
Kris

[Jambjanatan]

Thanks, everyone. I now have more questions. You've all been very helpful.

It's starting to look like I'll need to set this story in Alexandria itself, though it's going to be tricky because the resolution must take place in Britain--because the "end" of this case is mentioned (not the solution but that the case is coming to a close) during another Sherlock Holmes tale. IT makes my job a little more difficult but not impossible.

Also - the reference in Sherlock Holmes is to "two coptic patriarchs" - well, that can only refer to Pope Cyril V and Catholic Coptic Patriarch Cyril II around the year 1895...and that would have to be in Alexandria.

So here is what I need.

#1 - really good locale references to Alexandria and an old Coptic Orthodox parish there (I'd prefer for it to not be the main one).

#2 - references on Pope Cyril V and (Catholic) Cyril II--the more personal the better. Meaning I want to know about them as people rather than simple religious figures. What they looked like. What their personalities were like. What they did on a daily basis. If I don't find references for this, I'd have to make it up (not preferred) or simply make them scarce in the story.

#3 Cultural references for the coptic people.

#4 Does anyone know if Pope Cyril V ever left Alexandria to travel WHILE he was pope? And if so, would a secret trip to Rome be out of the question (hypothetically he would go to give the Roman pontiff a piece of his mind...it's an option I'm looking at to get everyone in one place, but if it doesn't work I won't go this route).

References can be book or web references. For books, I hope I can find them all in local libaries or via the internet.

Okay - let's start there. Help is greatly appreciated!
--Ann

[cewIdeatovace]

Hi Ann

For these sort of detailed references I would suggest you visit and post the questions at:

http://www.coptichymns.net

It might sound an irrelevant forum but in fact it is a place where very tradition minded Coptic Orthodox post who know the recent history pretty well. I am sure that some Copts there would either have information to hand or know where to get it.

They would certainly be able to make suggestions about locales etc.

Continued best wishes

Peter