[LongaDonga]

My dear Golo,

If there were enough of your kind of heroes to name all the streets in Santo Domingo we would be living in much different world.

By the way, what kind of macro politics are you into if you decided to post about the changing of the name of a street?

jojocho

[LongaDonga]

Antonio Imbert is the only one that is still alive Golo, and I know he's not poor, but I would hardly consider him one of the richest men in the nation . What links he had with Trujillo (or even with Balaguer if you want to talk about links) I do not know. What I do know is that, regardless of his true intentions, he and the rest of his group (Pedro Livio Cedeño, Estrella Sadhalá, Antonio de la Maza, etc.) finally got rid of one of the worst dictators Latin America has ever seen, and for that the least that we can do is be thankfull.

[Lauramalina]

Imagine if Trujillo were still in power today. Do you really think that you could sleep with the windows open? In the age of cable tv, the internet and $350 round-trip airfares, the forces of economic and cultural integration would be far beyond the ability of El Jefe to stop. (The mighty Soviet Union couldn't stop it.)

Were Jefe still in power, Newyorquinos well-trained in crime and violence would still be arriving daily. Trujillo himself would no doubt have taken a big role in the drug trafficking business by now - ala Baby Doc and Noriega - compromising with powerful criminal elements.

There is no going backwards.

[Wmshyrga]

The biggest political closing of any major media outfit took place during the PLD government when they closed down Hatuey De Camps TV station with a major military operation. Did you just notice channel 6 on the air again now that the PRD government is back?

TW

[Wmshyrga]

Once again, our politicians seem to be sniffing something. Otherwise you would not hear so much nonsense. I am not sure if you heard the one about a Congressman calling for changing the name of the San Cristobal province and giving it the name of Pena Gomez. This nut was not even the province's senator!

Now the ultimate idiocy is the proposal by some to name the Malecon, which has been known forever as George Washington Avenue as the Avenida Hermanas Mirabal.

Those of us who live and love this city would find this outrageous. I am sure Uncle Sam would also look at this as a slap in the face. There is already a Mirabal Avenue in one of the popular neighborhoods. The Malecon has already been divided in four sections with different names. Of course, nobody respects any other name but Goerge Washington's and Malecon. The section by Avenida del Puerto was named after Caamano. But who cares. Have you ever heard even the most vocal revolutionary call the Malecon by Caamano's name? Can you imagine purchasing a $4 million condo on a street with the Mirabal sisters's name? What would happen to the Torre Washington and the Malecon Center. Can you picture living in a luxury hirise called Mirabal Tower? It would be the equivalent of buying at any Martin Luther King Drive in the USA. This is not a racist thing.

Caamano was a nobody. So were the Mirabal sisters. What did they do for this country besides opposing Trujillo? Many think they gave their life for democracy. I don't. They just hated Trujillo because he chased one of the sisters and she didn't like him. That's it. The other one was married to Tavares Justo and one can understand her hate. Tavares Justo was a frustrated revolutionary who sacrifized his life for stupidity. He knew he was no Fidel Castro, but he still decided to got o the mountains and die there. So did Caamano. We are not talking here about Che Guevara quality people!! I would prefer Che Guevara Boulevard if it were the case.

I could care less what they call the Malecon. To me it will always be George Washington Avenue. So it's Lincoln Avenue and Churchill Avenue. Keep the fake Dominican heroes to the oriental zone and small towns where people still believe in fables.

TW

[Wmshyrga]

The Santo Domingo City Hall council voted unanimously to keep the name of George Washington for the Malecon.

The asinine proposal to change its name to the do-nothing Hermanas Mirabal, pseudo heroes of the post Trujillo era, was an outrage. Thank god there a a law by Congress to establish the name of Washington, otherwise we would have had the typical spur of the moment decision of new day politicians, who have no idea why things are the way they are.

Of course, the war has not been won. How can we be sure our empty brains in the congress wouldn't think of taking this wild ride themselves and void the law?

I also believe there was some pressure from owners of the multimillion condos being built to resurrect the Malecon to leave G.W.'s name. Can you imagine paying $5 million for a condo in an Hermanas Mirabal Avanue? No way Jose. Sales would have crashed!!

TW

[Lauramalina]

Discussing whether the Dominican military could conquer Haiti is going from the sublime to the ridiculous. Who the hell would want Haiti even if you could conquer it. That would be like winning a cruise to Beirut.

None the less, according to Ambassador Martin's book, Bosch was told by his generals that they did not have the material necessities to supply any divisions across the boarder. The Vampire jets were out of repair (and were not even used in the civil war - the p-51s were used instead). Remember, the goal was not to conquer Malpasso or Hinche. The goal was to get some divisions to Port au Prince and supply them on the way there, and it could not be done. I suspect that it could not be done today either - and that despite the fact that Haiti does not have a functioning army.

Interesting facts: The DR was the last country to use p-51s in battle (1965), and the last country to use the Lockheed Constellation for scheduled passenger service (Quisqueyana Airlines, 1972).

I'll grant you that the ejercito sure does have a lot of generals with a lot of real shiny medals.

[LongaDonga]

Let's make something clear right now ... I don't approve of any name change for any province, be it in honor of Pena Gomez, Balaguer, Bosch, Guzman, Majluta or whoever (or is it whomever?). I think the provinces, airports and streets that already exist should keep their names. Period. These people all have their merits, but only time will tell if the contribution of these individuals to dominican society will be worth remembering.

What I don't approve of is the way that extremely important historical figures of the Dominican Republic were bashed in the first posting. Nobody has the right to speak of those people in such a despective way, or to ridicule them in this forum. That type of talk only demonstrates plain ignorance.

[LongaDonga]

Definitely sounds like you came from a trujillista family. All I can say is that the elders in my family agree with you on the point that everything worked back then, but they also say that they lived in fear, and that they rather see things how they are today than have him ruling the country. Perhaps your family didn't live in Ciudad Trujillo, maybe they where one of the many "compadres" that Trujillo had, maybe they didn't live the world that a lot of dominicans had to live in during the "Era". As you have said many times ... it's all relative.

[Lauramalina]

Golo,

Old farts in every country say the same thing. "Back when I was a boy, the trains ran on-time, cars were built to last, the airlines served meals with a smile, the schools were fine, kids respected their parents, you could sleep with the doors open, blah, blah, ad nauseum. It's like a running joke. The only difference is that you add that it was because of the good old homicidal facsist dictatorship!

Don't you think other old farts in Caracas and Mexico City also talk about how crime free and functional their cities used to be - back when their populations were a fraction of today's???

Quality of life is sinking in the overpopulated capitals of every developing country. And nobody anywhere builds things to last anymore. You say its because Trujillo is gone. Well, did Trujillo reign in Caracas, Mexico City and Detroit also???

[gnusnich]

Names matter when Macro not Micro events are seen. Gandhi is a big name in the world. But, the new generation (including myself) do not agree with the Gandhian principal of one country and isolated world.

Rather one world and many countries is the way. Maybe and I say maybe God made the world...but us humans made countires and religions which are all the problem of this world.

Gandhi was an idiot and shame on any country that adopts his name on streets including the Mahatma Gandhi Street in Santo Domingo.

I know I am saying the right thing because India and Pakistan have gone backwards ever since the British left us.

[LongaDonga]

You have a very interesting point of view (not necesarily my own, but interesting nonetheless). Would love to chat with you sometime about these events.

By the way, do you consider yourself a trujillista?

[Wmshyrga]

Jojo: As far as ignorance, I dont think you can touch me with a 50 foot pole as far knowledge of Dominican Republic and yes I am Dominican. But you are just like most Dominicans....extremely naive. You only live in present history. To you anybody shoved in front of you by the "limpiasacos" of today is a hero. We have firm heroes who have been engraved in our minds already in the mold of the Washingtons and the Lincolns. Duarte,Sanchez and Mella to name a few. They got their streets, although these guys were just figureheads in their time.

To some Peña Gomez is a hero. But of what? What did he do besides take a salary from the PRD party for 30 years without ever holding a regular job? The guy never worked a day in his life. He travelled abroad every other month at our expense. He wore $2000 dollar tailored suits and lived like a king. Can you tell me what he did? If you know any history...what did the Mirabals do besides one being a wife of Tavares Justo and the other just an opposer of Trujillo. Does that make them heroes? Did the fact they get killed make them heroes? What about the 30,000 Haitians Trujillo got rid off ...are they heroes? Maybe we should have a Haitians Killed By Trujillo Boulevard?

Hey man...if you compare some of our mickey mouse heroes with worldwide personalities who had an impact on mankind, you better take your argument somewhere else. I am too much into macro politics and history to bother with midgets. Almost every capital of the world has a Kennedy Boulevard. The Mirabals are nobodies. I have more respect for Jackie Kennedy, who lived thru a true impacting historical event that is still imprinted in everyones mind.

TW

[Lauramalina]

We're talking about a country with a very limited number of heroes. Golo would like to dismantle about half of them. In the name of national cohesion and development of a national psyche, their legends should be further developed with an emphasis on the morality of their actions.

Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, Churchill and DeGaul (to name a few streets of La Capital) all, upon very close examination, had major flaws. But, to forment national pride and provide a national identity for schoolchildren, the flaws have been filtered out and they have been converted into almost superhuman national heroes that help create a nationa identity and morality - even if that morality is fabricated (e.g. George Washington and the cherry tree). It's a bit biblical, actually. What's so bad about this?

For this reason, I'm fine with anything named after the Mirabals. But I agree that if the PRD names everything after PRD politicians of little or no accomplishment or historic legend, the succeeding governments will just change them again.

What will Pena Gomez International Airport be called ten years from now? Johnny Jones International Airport? Danilo Medina International Airport? Sammy Sosa International Airport? To the victor goes the spoils?

[Wmshyrga]

La Legion Extranjera in the Dominican Republic was organized by Trujillo in the 50's when Elvis was at its heyday(Sorry, he still is decades after his death..his latest CD is the best selling in the world).

Its main location was in a dirt road just outside of Loma de Cabrera and about 15 miles from where Antonio De La Maza(now a hero) the terror of the border had his lumber mills. By the way, just about that time someone by the name of Fernandito Villalona was born in Loma de Cabrera. Hundreds of children were born out of marriages and wedlock with legionnaires in the town, of course.

The local regular army post in Loma had its own separate fort with a lieutenant in charge. But the heart, soul and power of the border town was the legion. There were several companies and they were the size of a whole brigade(several thousand) under the command of Colonel Carlos Maria Paulino Asiatico. They were in large wooden barracks neatly organized, landscaped and self-maintained. They always wore camouflage, except for activities. Their main weapon was the legendary Mauser Rifle and the Cristobal machinegun built in DR by Trujillo. During their time the Haitians stopped crossing the border. They were absolutely afraid of this highly skilled group. They could have taken over Haiti in hours if they wanted to.

The legion was later disbanded and they were merged into the different armed forces and the police. believe it or not, a corporal scribe from the legion went on to become Chief of Police. Another,Lieutenant Miguel Calderon became an aide to Caamaño during the revolution. The key staff of the legion went on to take many important army posts.

TW

[Wmshyrga]

The motives for killing Trujillo were strictly personal. The group that killed Trujillo was inspired by greed and personal vengeance. The plans by this group of "traitors" who all became rich and powerful by Trujillo's benevolent hands was to take over and continue dictatorial rule. I have posted long and enough on the real background of these people here. You can check around. But none of these people were less feared than Trujillo himself.

Imbert is a copy of Trujillo except he does not have the leadership and charisma. Other than killing Trujillo he would have been a nobody. He drives around in a long Lincoln limo with an entourage larger than any of Trujillo's. He brags by showing brass license plates with full general stars and wears an unfit military uniform with more medals and condecorations than Trujillo ever wore. Traffic is stopped and detoured wherever he drives. Remember that Trujillo was nicknamed "chapita" because of all the condecorations in his uniform. Well, today's generals look like clowns. they make Trujillo look like a well-mannered English Lord. Take our Chief of the Armed Forces, an extremely overweight man,. His condecorations cover from two inches below his clavicle to the last rib in his chest. He as well as all of our generals now walk around with Nazi style batons. Imbert was never an academic military man. Trujillo's legalcy still lives.

Antonio de La Maza, another dead "hero" was the terror of the border, who owned the largest lumber mill in the nation in the town of Restauracion. Young women were hidden from his entourage when he drove thru towns, including my sister.

Our living hero was in charge for years of no other than our biggest gold mine!

TW

[hexniks]

E=m*c^2

X (go Giants)

[jimmy28]

My two cents worth,

Obviously any party in power likes to test it
limits. Now I am not comparing the Mejia administration
to Stalin or Trujillo, but both of those dicatators changed
names of cities and places to suit their "needs" (EGOS).
Then names were changed back. Although I would be
annoyed by changing the name of Avienda
George Washington, in the great scheme of things
it would not matter much. I still think of George Washington
as one of the great leaders in the history of the world.
Maybe they can do it like in NYC, where they name a street
corner or area after a new "celebrity" but the street name
remains the same.

God Bless,

Moca

[MidwestMadman]

I o believe that Sammys name is already on the highway between the airport and San Pedro,anyway i agree with jojocho about not denigrating Dominican heros,i am not Dominican however who but Dominicans have the right to decide which of their country men are heros to them?What is unimportant to us may very well be very important to someone else,no matter what each of those mentioned are factual parts of history and mean something to a lot of people.

[Wmshyrga]

I was perhaps too young to say now that I was a Trujillista, but I was brought up in a family that admired Trujillo, so was more than 95% of the population from what I gathered. He was admired by young and old. So did I.

As a matured and somewhat intellectualized adult I can firmly say that Trujillo was by far a better administrator(zero foreign debt, no inflation, the strongest monetary system in America other than the USA) than all presidents who followed him up to today.

He practicly created this nation's institutions and maintained order throughout the system. Everything worked in an orderly fashion. Nothing ever got lost. Our armed forces were not politized and were more professional. Even today, Carretera Duarte built by Trujillo is the greatest construction project ever done in DR. Most of his infrastructure remains as the best built and lasting.(Carretera Duarte was built with airport quality. You could land a jet in it. Today's reconstruction is a piece of black asphalt crap) Duarte bridge built by Trujillo has lasted beyond its years because of Trujillo's will. It has received little maintenance since, yet it stands.)

Take something as simple as garbage. Pick up was daily everywhere. We had neat and clean sweep trucks that would wash and vacuum the streets everyday. Do you see anybody picking up trash today?

Take electricity. Trujillo created the CDE and built it into a highly professional agency. There were never any blackouts, even during hurricanes. The water was flowing in all barrios, cities and towns and he preserved the enviroment so that rivers were healthy. Crime was non-existent, specially car theft, robbery, drugs and holdups. The police and army were not filled with criminal elements like today.

He developed the sugar, cocoa and cofee industry into important export factors only to be destroyed by our present leaders.

Of course you say, well it was a dictatorship. As a young man I never felt the difference. I went to parties, enjoyed girls, we danced rock'nroll, the twist and mashed potatoes, wore Elvis' greasy hair and went to TV shows to dance. I listened to the Worldwide Hit Parade from U.S. radio and had the top 10 hits very cheap. Our parties were as good as any today. We dressed better. We ate better. My school Colegio La Salle was 200% better then than the mickey mouse school it is today. Our State University was a top institution, not the joke it is today. It's all relative my friend.

Since this is getting so lenghty, you can ask me later and I can tell you the origin and what happened to all of the model neighborhoods created by Trujillo that today have become slums thanks to lack of planning and the disarray of today's governments.

TW