[averkif]

Just posted the following to the vancouverjazz.com facebook page:

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[Clarissa]

What is this "Facebook" you speak of?

[averkif]

Quote:

[gedsiz]

Yeah, things are pretty quiet here, and Facebook is probably at least partly responsible, but please don't get discouraged. This is still the best place for information on Vancouver Jazz. You can't really "discuss" things on facebook, you can only comment. Hopefully things will pick up here again...

Al

[Scukonah]

I agree with Al on this ......I know this is a bit of a dry spot...where's Darryl Zimmerman now that we need him? It's a bit of a conundrum as people can express their views and opinions on the net but we also live in a world of political correctness which often prevents people from expressing themselves. Do you remember when every issue of Down Beat would carry controversial statements and opinions by major musicians that would cause scads of letters to the editor? You don't see that anymore...everyone is "so nice". "I love all styles and all music" etc. etc. Jazz magazines like Jazz Times and Down Beat have become slick, bland and non-controversial. The last bit of controversy that I read was Lou Donaldson's view of Ornette Coleman where he said that he liked Ornette and was a friend of Coleman's but hates his music. Maybe Lou is old-school enough to express what's really on his mind. I hope some of that will come back into the Forum. I don't think Facebook, Twitter etc can replace the Forum.

[toopyimport]

Personally, I don't find Facebook very useful.

[Vitoethiche]

Dear Brian,
Please keep vancouverjazz.com rolling!
I'll try to think of something controversial to say. Since my semester of teaching is done I have given up on saying anything intelligent or useful, but perhaps can still manage to stir up a controversy.

Maybe Doheny will post something and we can all gang up on him as usual. John where are you when we need you?

I think this is a really important site and that it makes a critical contribution to the scene.
Facebook could not possibly do what this site does.

[escolubtessen]

I think a public forum can contribute to a scene in a way that Facebook or other closed networking sites couldn't possibly hope to - an open stage to let people interact without necessarily having friends in common.

I'm not sure if I precipitated this particular question at this time - Brian has mentioned his frustration about the lack of general discussion to me before and bemoaned his belief that facebook was siphoning off a lot of activity. I may have been the last holdout; I signed up for facebook yesterday and immediately friended Brian to his shock!

Even in the last day or so I've seen lots of activity that could easily help make this a better site and more convivial group. I'll try to contribute to both (with emphasis here Brian!), if others did the same I think that way go a long way to continuing to make this a valuable site and keep the discussions ongoing .. N

[averkif]

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[agolutuaddiff]

I am very new to this particular forum. It is a useful tool in establishing contacts and getting to know new people. Soon I'll be moving to Vancouver and I hope this forum can continue to aid my search for musicians to work with, and enjoy. Site and forums aren't always the most exciting places to visit on the internet, but at least it's pointed information unlike facebook. I like going to a site that is about jazz and music in general. Too often facebook posts are about their kids or something else that is personal. Also people seem to be in many groups and none of them seem to have any purpose. Here there is a purpose. Thanks for keeping this forum going. Hopefully, others will see the worth in the same light as I do.

[Beerinkol]

Could part of the reason that posts have been few and far between of late be that some of the most prolific posters (John Doheny and Morgan Childs, for example) have left Vancouver? Or is it a reflection of a further decline in the popularity of jazz in general? Or a reflection of the aging of the formerly regular, mostly male, posters to the forum and their declining testosterone levels? :-). I don't know. Maybe Facebook is just one of many reasons.

[gedsiz]

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[lymnCymment]

I was a "prolific poster" here for years when I still lived in Vancouver, and for several years after I left. As Al points out, it was my way of 'staying in touch.' I enjoyed the feisty give and take, for the most part (the occasional troll notwithstanding) and I found the discussions informative and enlightening. There's an enormous breadth of collective knowlege about jazz on this forum and I learned a lot of stuff. I also "met" a number of people here for the first time (and in many cases, like with Morgan, subsequently met them in real life) and reconnected with a number of others I hadn't heard from in years.

I also noticed a bit of increasingly unpleasant pushback in the ad hominem department in recent years, and from unexpected sources. I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect my long abscence from Vancouver might cause some people to perceive me as no longer a member of the tribe, and many Vancouverites don't like criticism from 'outsiders.' I understand that. A lot of cities (including New Orleans) are like that.

But this post was the last straw:
http://www.vancouverjazz.com/forums/...ead.php?t=3303

It's entirely possible that some of my opinions in that string are wrongheaded and misinformed (I admit as much in the comments thread, several times) but what I'd hoped for from some of the folks so loudly telling me I'm full of shit was some insight into exactly why that was so. That way we all learn something. Instead I get Terry Deane and Cory Weeds (guys I actually know and consider at least aquaintances, if not necessarily friends) telling me I'm a phony and a blowhard. There really is no way I can respond to that. What am I supposed to say? No I'm not?

I still think this forum can serve a valuable function that Facebook can't. It's a central spot for the exchange of ideas and information in a way that FB, with it's fragmented nature, can't be. This place is the virtual equivalent of a club-hang, like the Joint, or Basin Street, or the Landmark Jazz Bar in it's heyday used to be. The plethora of FB pages is like a bunch of individual people's houses.

I don't have much to say about the Vancouver scene these days, having been gone so long and having no personal, hands on experience of it. But I (perhaps mistakenly) thought I had something to contribute when I made that Jazzfest post. Trouble is, it didn't really stimulate the discussion I'd hoped it would, instead it became a forum for people to either loudly state how well they have been treated by the media, or to make personal attacks on me. I found that last to be extremely hurtful and I have no interest in inviting any further punishment along those lines. If my posting here becomes simply a lightning rod for controversy rather than constructive discussion, it's better that I stay away. But that's no reason why actual Vancouverites can't make their voices heard here.

My late father always said that argument and discussion are signs of intellectual health.

[Vitoethiche]

Hey John
I always enjoyed your posts, even when I didn't agree with you. My reference to you in my earlier post on this thread was meant to point out one of the reasons why some folks don't post as prolifically as they used to. There have been occasional periods of uncivilized commentary from time to time and this always discourages discussion I think. I hope there may be something more from you (and others who have stayed away for such reasons) in the future.

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

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[Michmant]

Given the rough-and-tumble world of forums, I think it's a mistake to just walk away from one that fills a void in the community. Realistically, Facebook can't compare to this forum. It complements it, by permitting artists to advertise gigs etc., but that gets lost easily as the posts pile up.

I come here for better info, fresh points of view (when they show up) and notices of gigs etc. I'd be disappointed if the forum disappeared.

I think forums have their ups and downs. Hang in there, Brian - things could pick up again. I'll try to stop by more often and contribute when I can.

[preptarra]

Please keep this open - Facebook is a big pain in the rear, even though some gigs do come in on it. Real career musicians use your page. Facebook sends too much irrelevant nonsense that is taking up all of our time. In addition we don't have to weed through so many of the hobby musicians here as on FB. Personally I pay more attention to communiques that come from your site...