| General Discussion Undecided where to post - do it here. |
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10-10-2011, 04:18 PM
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#21 |
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Cool thread, Gaillo. I am with Old Herb Lady when she says that intention matters. I also agree with you that the givers do benefit from giving if they are honest with themselves about it.
The way I see it . . . giving for the purpose of getting good karma is not ideal. Giving for the sake of giving, for a smile, to make someone happy . . that's awesome. If you happen to feel good and benefit from the receiver's happiness, there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think a karma lift is supposed to be the primary goal. I can't imagine not having any ego at all. The thought of it makes my head spin. If it exists, it's got to be a very peaceful way of existence. |
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10-10-2011, 04:32 PM
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#22 |
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I'm not sure I believe in karma. There are some pretty evil people who seem to get away with their evilness. The prosecutors and police in the case mentioned above for one. Karma A type of spiritual debt or credit we accumulate ourselves, which is embedded in our soul energy field. This soul energy imprint biases probability to attract payback experiences, ones that compensate for the choices made in the past. If the choices were to help others in need and thereby assist freewill and balance, that brings one positive karma and perhaps in the future one will be helped in return. If instead one has chosen to hurt others who were innocent, that creates imbalance and violation of freewill, and that brings corresponding repercussions. The difference between karma and fate is that fate arises from decisions made outside linear time, and karma from decisions made within linear time. Karma is fundamentally about learning lessons. One learns through positive action that as you help others, so are you helped. It’s a rewarding teaching mechanism in that sense. And one learns through negative action that as one hurts others, so are you hurt, in order to understand the consequences of your actions. Negative karma can be resolved by discharging the soul imprint through forgiveness and understanding. Karmic experiences can be prevented by understanding their core lessons before they are attracted. It follows that karma does not exist for two types of individuals: spiritless humans for whom it serves no purposes since any lessons they receive dissolve along with their consciousness upon death, and highly STS individuals who are on a negative evolutionary path and have no need for a corrective mechanism that teaches them to be ‘good.’ Thus the world is full of seemingly wicked people who never receive their comeuppance. Karma is not a moral thing, but an evolutionary catalyst for those who need it. |
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10-10-2011, 04:57 PM
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#23 |
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I never believed in Karma. Hey if what goes around comes around, what do we need cops, laws and courts for? Criminals will be punished anyway, right?
I see it as just another feel good philosophy that has control value. The masses will behave better if they think there are consequences to their behavior. Our rulers are smarter than us and they aren't worried about Karma. |
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10-10-2011, 05:34 PM
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#24 |
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I agree Hoarder, I have seen it throughout my life, ruthless people who get away with everything living high on the hog, and the nice people who are trying to do the right thing getting screwed. I don't know?
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10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
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#25 |
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I see it as just another feel good philosophy... Karma can only come from your reaction actions.
Not slackers. And protection rackets spend a lot of your energy protecting themselves from karma. |
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10-10-2011, 06:34 PM
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#26 |
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I never believed in Karma. Hey if what goes around comes around, what do we need cops, laws and courts for? Criminals will be punished anyway, right? imagine you are a ruthless person, you cutthroat your way to the top, you have fame, riches, beauty (well paid plastic surgeons), and all the friends that money can buy. the old lesson from Karma is be nice to the people on the way up, because they are the ones you will be dealing with on the way down. (thats part of it) and the other one, is that lesson in life, "no pleasure from ill gotten gains" A tyrannical ruler lacks judgment, but he who hates ill-gotten gain will enjoy a long life. ... A ruler with no understanding will oppress his people, but one who hates ... he is apt to prefer them who flatter him, and minister most to his pleasures Karma is not always evident, Take O.J. Simpson, "he got way with it", but he lost all is fame (gained being infamous), lost all true friends and decent people in his life, and eventually got caught and sent to prison for something else. Casey Anthony is another one, Karma is going to dish that young lady a whole bunch of shit, i can assure you of that, not only torment, but many bad things are soming her way. part of dealing with Karma, is that the person so effected, does not realize he (or she) has stepped on a landmine. if you could see, and avoid "bad karma", then it would not really exist. O.J. thought he was "king of the world" after getting away with that horrendous crime. The Rothschilds think they are "kings of the world", and then someone (not Al gore) invented the internet. Israel thinks they are above the law, Karma plays out, sometimes we see it, sometimes not, sometimes karma is getting what you want (fame, riches, power, etc), and it making you miserable (think of celebrity suicides) Think back 10 years ago to public opinion on Israel, as compared to today (as more folks realize Israel did 9/11) Karma, Israel will not even see the Karmic Blow it will receive for all the mischief, misery, and mayhem it has inflicted on innocent folks... |
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10-10-2011, 08:07 PM
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#28 |
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TMW: The Philosophy of Karma (Action)
Karma has an interesting interpretation in the west. Most people believe the underlying philosophy of karma to be something along the lines of do bad and bad will come to you. Dictionary.com defines karma “as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation”. Karma to wikipedia is “the concept of “action” or “deed” in Dharmic religions, understood as a term to denote the entire cycle of cause and effect as described in the philosophies of Hinduism and Buddhism.” The popular understanding, along with both dictionary.com and wikipedia are missing the actuality karma. The literal translation for karma is action, which is what wikipedia had it as. This is where it all starts going wrong. One of The Buddha’s Five Remembrances is what I used to reach the true nature of karma. My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand. The Philosophy of karma is that you, in every moment, are the result of your karma. It is not something coming to you later on, or haunting you, it is every moment and only that moment. For any single action to take place, a multitude of other actions/events must have lined up allowing that event to be. Below are two examples of karma/action, then a wrap up on how karma is the result, not the cause. Common examples of bad karma that will ‘catch up’ to a person are negative qualities like stealing, cheating, lying, etc. Each of these very actions when being committed/acted is punishment of itself. To steal, to cheat, to lie is not something that comes easy to humans, and once started, becomes easier and easier to continue(the continuation/development of bad karma). Each of these actions is like withholding water/sun and other quality from a flower. The flower get weaker and duller, slowly it shrivels up and dies as a result of the actions. Common examples of good karma that will ‘catch up’ to a person are positive qualities like helping others, donating money, etc. Each of these actions, when being committed is the actual reward. The joy that is received from helping others in a tough situation or giving out of love and compassion is like a flower receiving fertilizer; the flower grows that much stronger and brighter. Looking at action, regardless of positive/negative|good/bad, the action is the result of something; it is the effect of other causes. To end up in another country one does not just click their fingers. One must find a method to get there, pack up, make arrangements for transportation and living at both ends, communicate to their family/friends what is going to take place. Then after ALL of this, the person finally takes karma(action). They are living their karma, their action. |
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10-10-2011, 11:56 PM
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#29 |
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That idea (getting rid of the ego) is at the CORE of many new-age and occultic belief systems. As for me, no thanks... if you (properly) define the Ego as one's "sense of self", then getting rid of it is the WET DREAM of globalists, collectivists, and all others who would prey on man's mind by first destroying the individualistic and self-identifying aspects of it. The ego is not YOU. YOU *have* an ego. The ego is a tool. It is not prudent to let tools dictate one's life. If you want to know what YOU are, then simply think about it. The Cosmos is a Non-Dual process. I didn't say "one" process because for there to be "one" something, there has to be something "other" (as in, outside the "one"). Everything is a manifestation of the entire universe; there is but one *source*, after all. That Source perpetuates itself continually, outside of time, and is manifest as the conscious and unconscious. It is like a circle whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere. The ego exists so species survive. An enlightened population might die out within a generation, or a few weeks (so I can see why some would say it's good for the NWO). Enlightenment is a funny thing. But one need not permanently destroy their ego! That would be like having to physically throw away a television because you don't trust yourself not to watch it. Just realize who you are, or who I is, and all the illusions of the world (Maya) fall away. I think it is worth noting that the meaning of "nirvana" is similar to a sigh of relief. But being enlightened and knowing the Nature of Nature and God and Man and the Cosmos doesn't mean you have to lay down and die or be a monk or allow someone to harm you. Ultimately, the Cosmos will unfold as it should; there is not a grain of sand out of place in the Universe! Tat tvam asi! तत् त्वं असि. That thou art! |
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10-11-2011, 12:30 AM
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#30 |
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Good post sirgonzo. I'd liken the ego to the body. You don't want to destroy the ego...without it, you'd be like an invalid in society. The goal is instead to subjugate it. Similar to how the body is precisely controlled by not over-eating, using the bathroom at specified times, demanding physical labor when necessary.
The body, or "flesh", is not evil, just like the ego isn't evil. But both do harm when they are running the show. Conversely, both are essential tools and shouldn't be damaged. |
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10-11-2011, 12:34 AM
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#31 |
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I think you are missing some of the karmic value stuff, although I will say loud and clear "Hoarder is one of the wisest and smartest" folks I have ever conversed with, he was instrumental in "waking me up" |
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10-11-2011, 03:56 AM
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#32 |
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Good post sirgonzo. I'd liken the ego to the body. You don't want to destroy the ego...without it, you'd be like an invalid in society. The goal is instead to subjugate it. Similar to how the body is precisely controlled by not over-eating, using the bathroom at specified times, demanding physical labor when necessary. A quick analogy in regards to the nature of the Self in the purest form, beyond ego and all else: There are as many 'points' on the head of a pin as there are in the entire Universe. The relationship between the pin and the rest of the Universe is the same as the relationship between the True Self and the "rest" of the Cosmos. Infinity is infinity, and Isness is Isness. Ehyeh asher ehyeh אהיה אשר אהיה "I Am That I Am!" |
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10-11-2011, 08:02 AM
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#33 |
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The Philosophy of karma is that you, in every moment, are the result of your karma. More an action to be mastered. The religion itself has done very well in my estimation, of weaving its way into the fabric and acceptance of modern society. |
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10-11-2011, 10:11 AM
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#34 |
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It's funny seeing the "Buddha" thanks under the post, lol. "Ehyeh asher ehyeh אהיה אשר אהיה "I Am That I Am!" Didn't Popeye say that?  I am what I am, and that's all that I am. |
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10-11-2011, 01:09 PM
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#35 |
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10-11-2011, 02:02 PM
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#36 |
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I think perhaps people don't understand what an "ego" is.
http://gonebrokeforgod.blogspot.com/...e-and-ego.html Like all strengths pride comes from within. I have pride in being a good person, making good decisions and I have pride in my life. Ego is an outer belief. Ego is comparing your self to others and thinking "I am to good for them" or "I have pride in my history and roots". People veil this as "pride" but it is centered in judging others and comparing them to you. it comes from an insecurity in yourself. Most People in school have pride in their good marks since it was a challenge for them to better themselves. When it is just to be better then others, it is ego. Pride is healthy and ego is not. Ego creates divides and puts some above others, in an unhealthy and judgmental light. When I and a friend ended up in a homeless shelter in Ottawa, we were so drunk and stupid we had lost any pride in ourselves we could of held on to. All we had left was ego. When we talked to the guy at the desk we said "we are just drunk, we are not homeless" It was all just ego and condescension. If we had had pride, we could of graciously accepted the help offered and seen we were just like all the others. We just need a place to sleep. With our pride gone all we had was ego and our choice of words and feeling of threatened superiority showed that. Pride has little to do with situation but HOW you handle the situation. Just because you are down and out, it does not mean you have no pride. Many of the poor have lost their pride due to the habits and the brokenness of their lives, but there are many who still take much pride in the work they do like "binners". They work all night getting the bottles out of the trash, to make their small wage, but they have much pride in the money they make and that they can provide a small income for themselves. That is pride. The ability to live your life in your way; To hold your head high. The rich as well, rarely have pride. They only have ego. Ego is why they look down on others. It is due to their own insecurities about their lives. With true pride in who you are, you can be in any situation from the streets to the suburbs, and be secure in yourself. rarely though, do you see that pride, only their insecure egos. When the Pharisees told Jesus not to associate with the poor, the lepers, the prostitutes, the tax collectors etc. it was an attempt to see an ego in Jesus. Jesus being perfect; had no ego, but only pride. If he had had an ego, he would of been just like the pharisees; full of themselves and their hypocrisy. In every action and the words of Jesus, there was pride, and a security in himself. Ego and hypocrisy often come hand in hand. we are all troubled people, but most will hypocritically say "at least I am not like them." When in the back of there mind, they know their own imperfections. Being able to say "at times I have messed up in my life" or "I am a flawed being" does not mean you do not have pride. Being able to admit flaws is a sign of pride since you are not trying to cover up your weaknesses. Pride can accept help, ego cannot. You can still be secure in yourself but need help. where as, when you have ego, you are not able to accept help out of worry. Ego worries about "what will I look like?" or "others will think less of me". When someone says "you need to swallow your pride" they really mean swallow the ego. The "I can do it all myself" or the "I am too good for that" is just ego. Pride can ask for help and accept that you can not do it all yourself. Pride would not see itself as too good for a task, it would accept graciously and be PRIDEFUL in doing it well. When I busk, I am very prideful of working hard and sounding good. When people say "have you no pride, playing on the street?" It is the opposite! There is pride in every aspect of being out there for everyone to see. Often though, I respond to their criticisms with ego and say "at least I am not like others who beg". Instead of defending my own actions, I criticise others and the choices they make, instead of being accountable for my own. The sad part of society is that, everyone has ego, but many have lost all pride. The faith they have in their own actions as legitimate, is gone. The belief they are good is gone. The rich do not want to help the poor, since if they did, their ego would not be fed. the rich need the poor so they can have a have a false sense of superiority. If everyone had pride society would be a much more Even in the middle. But nay, The ones who have lost their pride rarely get the support they need to gain it back and to be happy in themselves. While on the other side, the rich need the pride-less to keep them on to and full of themselves. |
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