[Roamsaffots]

Okay perhaps this is a little tangential but it show how naive we are up here and how we are seen by others: "'Canadian' has apparently become a code word for blacks among American racists." This from the front page of the National Post, Friday, January 25 2008.
Also in the news this morning, (NP, 25/01/08,p2) a Canadian (if I may be so specific) has been "charged with promoting hatred against an identifiable group through Internet postings" in Regina. Another Canadian (really!) "a voice of white supremacists for years, has abandoned the movement and is accused of working for the FBI"...same paper, today's edition.
Weird news! Clearly old dogs can learn new tricks, as the last quote shows, while old attitudes die hard as the first two point out. Internet postings are clearly taken seriously in a legal sense and being Canadian is a red flag for racists, as we now are informed. How many of them work for the border patrol we have no way of knowing but I doubt many regard jazz as passe or square.
Bet there's a search engine with the word "dangerous" attached...
Melodramatically,
I

[Fertionbratte]

Ian Cameron wrote:


Quote:

[gMUVgw71]

Guy said: "These days whenever I speak to anyone who knows nothing about jazz, they think it's just square old-people's music".

Lat week I was watching that sitcom "King of the Hill".
The premise of that episode was that the lead couple felt they weren't as sophisticated as their new neighbours, beacuse their neighbours drank scotch and listened to jazz.

[Roamsaffots]

Absolutely love both of your comments.
American racists who call black people "Canadians" (which I had never of heard of until I read this morning's newspaper) presumably know that there aren't many blacks here. The implication is not that Canadians are black, but that blacks are like Canadians.
Do not underestimate your enemy; this is not ignorance it is called xenophobia. They know we are tolerant. Hence the epithet.
I agree that middle aged white guys like us are given the benefit of the doubt (by the Man as Doheny says) because we look like them. That is why I would rather introduce myself as a teacher, copyeditor and/or student at the border. If I say jazz/reggae/blues/funk/rock bassist-guitarist then I probably will rate a second glance at least. Middle class white guys seldom experience being "treated ... with impunity"(), so even if they play jazz they can sometimes remain a little naive even regarding the true nature of their own activities; they may not feel revolutionary but the actions of the authorities suggest otherwise.
Not only are we playing black music (not my terminology, but...) we are admitting the genius, as I said, of ex slaves who have an obvious stake in working for change in the system. We may look like the Man (to use Doheny's word) but the hihat on two and four gives us away. Hence the danger -- not only to us but to them.
Sophistication is the enemy of the racist myth because education is the antidote to ignorance. Hence, the ones who "drink scotch and listen to jazz" are naturally regarded with suspicion by the working class such as border guards. Far from a persecuted minority, white middle class middle aged males such as myself have a responsibility to parse the issues clearly and engage in constructive conversation where appropriate. To learn to play jazz and to learn what that means, too; we have the power, whether we want it or not, to change the system. It is our gift and an honour to be entrusted with the chance to make a difference in the world.
And to avoid melodrama wherever possible!
Thanks for your comments. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think all of this relates directly to our young lion Morgan and his misfortunes.
One Love again
I

[LoloLibia]

I've removed the name of the original subject of this thread as it could cause problems for him down the road.

[Roamsaffots]

I thought I'd let someone else get a word in edgewise here: After 650+ viewings I figured someone else had to have an insight I hadn't explored. Apparently not... Perhaps the "problems down the road" might be having their chilling effect. In any case, fewer than ten people have replied; we Canadians are a polite lot, n'est pas?
And thanks to Korsrud for the criticism; I'll try not to melodramatise too much on Bowen on the 15th! When the music starts my mouth falls silent.
Of course Morgan is a wonderful young musician and well worth the time spent in our friendly correcting of him; his comments on another thread in this site show that he sometimes has had regrets over his profanity (Jam at the End). Hopefully he'll think twice before committing his next first reaction to print.
The point I think important to make is that what jazz musicians do, regardless of race or colour, is crucial and significant. And, yes, dangerous. It is this fact that is acknowledged by the authorities in the NOPD and the border patrol. Are we too reticent, or humble, or too coward to acknowledge that?
It does no good to teach critical thinking and not to think critically; to teach jazz but not understand it's true history.
Cajun music gets it's name from Canadians; Acadians, specifically. If John Doheny (posting from New Orleans) thinks there are 36 black people in Canada then as a white man I am pleased to report I am directly related to almost 10% of the black Canadian populace; my brother, my son and my wife. Add the inlaws and acquaintances and, according to the estimate Doheny offers, I know about 150% of the black people in Canada personally -- not including Oscar Peterson or the first black NHL hockey player to whose former residence I delivered newspapers for years, unaware of the historic significance of that house.
I took the time to view the website under Doheny's posting and found a litany of flagellation regarding Martin Luther King's birthday. What really is the sense in mourning the man without taking up his mantle? We have ten, no, one hundred times the power of a young black American preacher right here as white, middle aged and middle class males online exploiting the educational opportunities of the so-called First World, teaching and playing what is regarded by many (as Korsrud points out) as privileged, intellectual music. How is it possible to live in New Orleans and do graduate work in the history of jazz without realising the influence of French Canada in Cajun (Acadian/creole) music? To teach critical thinking and not realise that using Canadian as a code word for black has nothing to do with the number of black Canadians; it is our attitude, our "otherness", that is being referred to!
I honestly hope to invite Doheny to a gig one day, of course, but in terms of "problems down the road", I have no compunction in risking a little melodrama if 650+ of the most beautiful people I know can get together and discuss these issues openly and without concern for any repercussions.
To those silent readers: if I am wrong, show me the way. If I am right, say so! Apathy leads to disaster. Pride comes before a fall. The enemy is fear itself.
One Love, and two musical notes:
Herbie Hancock, in the intro to The Buddha In Your Mirror -- "Don't Play the Butter Notes": Nyam Myoho Renge Kyo; however you translate it, it means "I commit to changing the world through sound"; Bob Marley: "Can we free our people through music? Yes, we free the people with music!"
Stop patronising, and tell the children the truth!
I

[Roamsaffots]

PS I forgot to add; perhaps supporting free trade -- reluctantly or otherwise -- was not exactly critically thought out? Half of my family is American and I love them all dearly but, even without the benefit of a degree, I never would have fallen for that one. Naivete?

[Fertionbratte]

Ian,

I didn't reply because I'd more or less spoken my piece on the matter, but since you're addressing me directly on a couple of points, I'll respond.

Quote:

[Fertionbratte]

Quote:

[Roamsaffots]

Nice! I am honoured by the detail and obvious consideration that went into those last replies. Time constrains me to comment only on that final point for now, as it most directly addresses the original issues.
Full-time musicians with "parochial" viewpoints are my main concern; in the present case we have border trouble that ought to be seen in the context of less parochiality, if I may use your terms.
And my personal naivete in the Free Trade debate? Marxist analysis! Thanks for the sobering reminder; I have to be honest in following your good example. Much of that analysis still stands but the sexism, mysogyny and antisemitism of some of my own influences, in reggae for instance, have to be abandoned.
More will have to wait until political science class gets out...
Respects,
I

[flowersnewacq]

Not really interested in this whole thread, but should point out that border guards are thinking of the nice music at the restaurant they ate at last night and their 15 year old kid's band class, not furious political thought and aggressive individuality when you say "jazz" so I don't think that has anything to do with it.
Plus the "black" connotation at this point is more Cosby Show than Black Panther as far as a border guard is probably concerned.

[Roamsaffots]

Let's see... Nearly one thousand views so far and that's as incisive as we can get? The COSBY Show?
Billie Holiday (remember Strange Fruit? It's about lynching, if that interests you) would be rolling in her grave.
In case you WERE interested in this whole thread, apparently border guards stuck their fingers up some peoples', uh, backsides; stole their cars, confiscated their tickets, subjected them to every available humiliation, have unlimited powers of search, seizure and detention and have now reduced our friend Morgan to a level of profanity unprecedented, I hope, on this forum and sparking this entire thread.
Who do you think they are -- Homer Simpson? Family Guy? And just when I thought we might be getting somewhere, too!
Perhaps we should define jazz; I think of Bird, Max, Miles, Louis, Diz, Oscar Pettiford, Duke, Mingus, Dewey and Joshua Redman, a number of Ellises, Brian Blade, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Abdullah Ibrahim, John Coltrane (Google Alabama on Youtube!) and, yes, Brubeck, Jaco, Bill Evans, Joe Pass, Red Rodney (so named to pass as albino negro, according to Bird), both Breckers, Metheny and Meldau.
Perhaps you were thinking of Sinatra, Buble, Krall and Cole.
Zappa says "Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny." We Canadians seem to be contradicting him here.
Let me melodramatize one more time, if I may, with the words of the Honourable Robert Nesta Marley, OD: "I'm gonna take/just a one step more/Cause I feel like bombing a church now/Now that I know the preacher is lying/And who is gonna stay at home/when freedom fighters are dying?"
"More Cosby Show than Black Panther"?
Sorry to the reasonable amongst us (Doheny, Korsrud, Johnston, etc; and likely a silent majority of others), my "furious individuality" got the better of me at the reminder of why I stopped playing jazz in Canada for a decade's hiatus playing real, meaningful music in a foreign land. One that won't put me on a no-fly list for daring to call jazz a black, revolutionary freedom music!
One Love
I
PS I'm probably coming across as a bit less of a pragmatist than I really am. Hope the entertainment value is worth any "problems down the road" as Brian says...

[Druspills]

In a point of historical accuracy, the Acadians who were forcibly relocated to Louisiana never were Canadians. The Acadian Expulsion occurred in 1755, 122 years before there was such a thing as Canada. They were sent packing en masse by the Brits for refusing to swear loyalty to the British flag.

They were simple farming people, originally from Normandy if I remember correctly, living on a subsistence diet of such crops as they could grow in the New World. They lived in a very fertile (and beautiful) Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia, and the Brits wanted the land for their own, once the Acadians had completed the hard work of dyking the land.

I lived for two of the best years of my life just a few kms down the road from Grand Pré, the symbolic point of departure for the Acadians. I confess to never having read Longfellow's Evangeline.

On my first visit to New Orleans, I had a chance to speak with Chef Paul Prudhomme, who told me he had visited the Annapolis Valley researching the roots of Cajun and Creole cooking.

In my opinion, knowing the simple (and quite spiceless) recipes, such as rappie pie, that have survived in the remaining Acadian populations in NS, I would guess the Acadian's most significant contribution to Cajun cuisine was mostly in the name itself.

Similiarly, the Acadian music that I learned in university (Acadia University, at the risk of being redundant) was very simple, more folkloric, coming a very old dialect of French. It probably was assimilated into the melting pot that was Louisiana with minimal effect, since there was already a well-established French presence there.

Or I could just be full of merde.

[Fertionbratte]

Quote:

[Druspills]

Absolutely, they would have been country bumpkins - all us folks from New Scotland (or earlier Nouvelle France) are.

[metrocartockasur]

Quote:

[Druspills]

Aach, oi.

[StivRichardOff]

As most of my family lives in the US, we cross the border frequently and I used to be amazed at how much they knew about me within seconds of stopping at the customs booth. I won’t bore you with tales of the many harrowing times I’ve had with U.S. customs and immigration, but (as you found out, Morgan) once they’ve got you out of your car and in secondary inspection, you're at their mercy and one of them sits down at a computer with your ID and runs your info through every imaginable search engine. They’re not just looking for a police record and citizenship – they want to know everything they can find on you - and they have the means to compile a dossier they can refer to whenever you enter the US or Canada.

I’ve almost always found Canadian customs agents to be courteous and respectful, but as you found out Morgan, it’s not a good idea to screw with them either, and I imagine they have the same computer resources as US agents. Once on file for a border offence, you’ll be red-flagged every time you cross, and I suspect the information is shared with their U.S. counterparts.

Remember when we entered the “information age?” We thought the information was for us, but it turns out, (as many of us feared) it’s on us. Now strangely, we have generations of individuals who have grown up with computers and somehow they’ve been lulled into the belief that their Facebook and Myspace etc. posts are private. Well don’t count on it! There is NO privacy on the net! Medical records, bank accounts, Tax statements, Social Insurance Numbers, Social Security Numbers, someday your DNA profile, and even posts on Vancouverjazz.com are, or will be, available to anyone with computer skills.

Morgan, some time ago in that silly thread about user names you responded to one of my posts with the following:

“Seriously though... I could not possibly care less if anybody in the world would google me and find my retarded point of view, which I'm more than happy to spew all over the internet. You'd have to be fully disabled to take any of it even remotely seriously. If you DO take it seriously, then you have a brain disorder... for fucking fuck's sake... this is not real life.... this is teh intrawebs, and we're all huge fucking nerds for even being here in the first place.”

I know you wouldn't ask for my advice, but you might want to rethink this before the next time you find yourself sitting on a hard cold chair in secondary inspection at the border while a customs or immigration official reads your Vancouverjazz.com tirade about his value to society. If you’re on the American side, look out! Jose Padilla, after torture and isolation for 43 months, was sentenced to over 17 years in prison for a “thought” crime.


Vic J Rhimes.

[Roamsaffots]

I'll second that

[xochgtlm]

Re crossing the border without a visa for a gig:

The customs guards will google your name now while they are talking to you. If the gig is listed online with your name, they will be asking you about it, *after* you say you are going for a visit or what not. A performer aquaintance of mine got a 10 year ban from the US that way, as in no entry for any reason at all, gig or no.

Also worth a thought that all comments on this board are publically viewable to non-members ...

my two cents
iain