[Viyzarei]

I have only recently starting noticing this on my Panasonic and now I can't stop noticing it on everything I watch. Just wondering if anyone else has the problem, apparently only 1% of people actually suffer from it. You see it really bad in games/movies with lots of black and white....

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasm...2007040133.htm

I love my Panasonic, the colour representation is absolutely gorgeous and apart from this problem it's been the best TV I've owned, but now I see this effect it's actually spoiling my enjoyment of it a bit. To the point where I'm considering selling and getting an LCD.

What I really want to know is if this effect will decrease over time or not. Anyone got any ideas?

[MilenaJaf]

I was.

It was the reason I ditched plasma, doesn't improve over time either.

[Viyzarei]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!

[grubnismarl]

I was.

It was the reason I ditched plasma, doesn't improve over time either.

No but according to what I've read about these Panasonic plasma's the black levels actually diminish over time!

[Viyzarei]

No but according to what I've read about these Panasonic plasma's the black levels actually diminish over time!

Care to link me?

[AXGreg]

What model do you have? I have a 50G10 and I can just barely sometimes see something that is phosphor trailish. It doesn't bother me most of the time. But I think knowing it's there creates some kind of weird placebo effect making your brain exaggerate it a lot more than it really is.

[AXGreg]

No but according to what I've read about these Panasonic plasma's the black levels actually diminish over time!

It's something that happens to all models, but not all the same amount. There is a glitch causing the voltage to increase drastically. But it doesn't happen to all sets. Only a very small percentage of sets. On AVS Forum, they thought it was happening on sets that were put through a 'break-in' procedure more than sets which weren't.

It's weird though. Still don't know for sure what percentage of sets it happens on.

[Viyzarei]

What model do you have? I have a 50G10 and I can just barely sometimes see something that is phosphor trailish. It doesn't bother me most of the time. But I think knowing it's there creates some kind of weird placebo effect making your brain exaggerate it a lot more than it really is.

Panasonic TX - P42S10B. It's not super obvious but like you say once you notice it. I can be a bit of an OCD type so I defo am seeing it more now because I'm looking for it.

[grubnismarl]

Care to link me?

There's a lot of stuff on AVS forums about it. I think this is the main thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167339

I came across it because I just picked up a P42S2 and there is a lot of mention of it in the S2 discussion thread there about it.

[grubnismarl]

It's something that happens to all models, but not all the same amount. There is a glitch causing the voltage to increase drastically. But it doesn't happen to all sets. Only a very small percentage of sets. On AVS Forum, they thought it was happening on sets that were put through a 'break-in' procedure more than sets which weren't.

From what I was reading there it is something deliberate that effects all sets. Intended to happen gradually but on some it was occurring 'overnight'. Here's a pretty good explanation from that thread...

"To the many people recently joining the discussion....

The root cause of the issue has been well-discussed earlier in this thread. Search for the word "patent" and I suspect you'll find it.

Here's the basic-basic explanation, apologies if this over-simplifies the situation for some people's tastes:

The plasma cells continuously undergo a repeated cycle in order to control their intensity. First step: they are initialized. A small voltage activates the cells and prepares them for the next step. Then, step two: they are addressed. This step determines which cells will be illuminated in the third step. Third step, they are sustained. Voltage is applied to the panel to keep the addressed cells bright for the cycle. The the sustain ends, and we return to step 1 to prep the cells for the next addressing. This happens at 480 Hz on the 12G panels, and 600Hz for THX mode. (higher frequency increases color accuracy)

The issue we're discussing deals with the initialization voltage. The lower the voltage, the darker the black level of the panel. The problem is.... if the voltage is too low, and cells don't get initialized, they can't be addressed, and then can't be sustained. (they will not light up when asked to)

So... if the voltage drops below a certain threshold, the cells will misfire. This is a bad, bad situation.

So, it's easy: make sure the initialization voltage isn't too high, or too low.

Where the issue gets tricky is that that threshold is a moving target. As the plasma cells age, the voltage required for initialization increases. If the panel anticipates and matches this need properly, the black levels should not experience much rise. The point is to just tip the cells over their initialization threshold, no further.

With the Panasonic panels, it appears that the initialization voltage driver over-compensates for the rise and increases the MLL of the panel.

Basically, using bogus numbers:

Perhaps cells wanted 12V to be initialized when the panel was new. After 500 hours, now it's more like 13.5V. If you hit that 13.5 dead-on, they'll be primed, without negative effects on black level. If you hit them with 14V, you'll increase the black level for no good reason. That's basically what's happening here.

From what we've been able to learn, it sounds like the panel won't "catch up" with the voltage over time, because (based on Panny's patent information), eventually the necessity for voltage increases ends. The cells do not experience much further wear. (the voltage climb flatlines) Based on the patent, this may happen around 1000 hours, but it certainly depends on the specific panel design.

If at this point (1000 hours?) the initialization voltage is too high, it will likely ALWAYS be too high, even if it stops increasing.

Hope that clarifies the situation for some of the newcomers. If I've made any mistakes/errors/omissions, please feel free to correct/comment."

[ehib8yPc]

James, what do you have your brightness and contrast set to currently? That can affect how prominent it will be for someone who is susceptible to it.

Also, regarding the "black levels overnight" I truly believe it is occurring but to a limited degree and a lot of people catch wind of stuff like this and run with it.

[Vcwdldva]

I have a weird issue with my tv too....
When watching tv sometimes i see this rather large chuck of pixels which look to be groups together as if i had some thick type substance on the screen all grouped together but not as bright as the rest of the screen. I havent noticed it in any games yet, but when I see it I constantly think there is a bunch of dead pixels. No matter how it's broadcasted either, 480i,720p 1080i. All give the same result, and it's not all the time.
Weird, but others came over and noticed it too.

Btw, this is with a vizio 1080p lcd.

[AXGreg]

James, what do you have your brightness and contrast set to currently? That can affect how prominent it will be for someone who is susceptible to it.

Also, regarding the "black levels overnight" I truly believe it is occurring but to a limited degree and a lot of people catch wind of stuff like this and run with it.

Yeah, that's what I was meaning when I said, it happens on all models but not all sets with the black level thing.

I have my brightness down to 20 or maybe 40, and the contrast at 50.

Just recently watching the Olympics where everything was on the bright white backdrop of snow was really the first time I had noticed any phosphor lag really. I don't notice it usually, but like has been mentioned, once you know it's there, you see it when it isn't there.

[Discus]

I also have a wierd problem with my LG LCD Tv,...
whenever i turn it on, only sh!t is running

[Viyzarei]

James, what do you have your brightness and contrast set to currently? That can affect how prominent it will be for someone who is susceptible to it.

Also, regarding the "black levels overnight" I truly believe it is occurring but to a limited degree and a lot of people catch wind of stuff like this and run with it.

Right now my brightness is around 50% and my contrast around 70%. I have played around with it alot. Thing is I watched King Kong on Blu Ray last night and for the most part didn't even think about it and was thoroughly impressed throughout. Immediately finished it and put on Mass Effect 2 and it was obvious as hell. It's definitely content related more than anything, playing with the settings doesn't seem to make that much difference. I didn't even know this phenomenon existed until 2 days ago!

[escolubtessen]

Panasonic TX - P42S10B. It's not super obvious but like you say once you notice it. I can be a bit of an OCD type so I defo am seeing it more now because I'm looking for it.

I have the exact same model (at least I recognize the S10), and I havent noticed anything like this so far. But now since you have said it, I guess I will look for it until it appears. And then I also wont be able to ignore it.

Gaaaahhhh!

[Viyzarei]

I have the exact same model (at least I recognize the S10), and I havent noticed anything like this so far. But now since you have said it, I guess I will look for it until it appears. And then I also wont be able to ignore it.

Gaaaahhhh!

Like I say, it's largely user dependant. Some people are just more susceptible to it than others unfortunately. And some sets. It is a very subtle effect, but yeah once you notice it......

[escolubtessen]

I know I know. I had a dead pixel on the side of my LCD monitor, but I had used it for a month without noticing it. Then my friend comes along, tells me about it, and now I cant do ANYTHING but stare right at it! Stupid brains... I hate these things. [rofl]

[MilenaJaf]

Like I say, it's largely user dependant. Some people are just more susceptible to it than others unfortunately. And some sets. It is a very subtle effect, but yeah once you notice it......

I don't reckon it's any better or any worse on different brands, be they a cheap LG or a £4k Kuro.

At the last CES there was talk on newer, faster phosphor tech that eliminates the problem so if you like plasma it might be worth holding out for more news on that instead of spending out on a large LCD.

[ancexiaepidge]

I also have a wierd problem with my LG LCD Tv,...
whenever i turn it on, only sh!t is running

Stop watching japanese porn...