[chinesemedicine]

So first here is what i have now

Alpine CDA-9835 (27wrmsx4) great sounding deck just show its age
JL TR 6.5" Components front
JL TR 6.5" Coaxials rear
Alpine 12" Type R ported (new style type r)
600wrms Alpine Amp

Looking to start with upgrading subs and headunit and interior speakers down the road. Looking to improve both SQ and SPL of the subs. The 2 setups i was considering were.

2x Alpine Type X 10" in a sealed box with a 2000wrms alpine amp
2x JL 10W7 in a sealed box with a JL 1000wrms amp

The JL's are rated for 500wrms each so that amp is perfect, the Alpines are rated for 1000wrms each so the 2000wrms amp is good for them but here is the issue i see. the JL setup is def more money BUT the 2000wrms that the alpine amp draws is gonna be a huge drain on my electrical system. Will have to upgrade the alternator battery and do 0 guage wire (pain in the @ss to run and work with) where as my factory 140a alternator and 4 guage wire will be enough for the 1000w jl amp. (would still upgrade battery, the battery my car takes is huuuge)


As for the headunit i was thinking something along the lines of the Alpine IVA-W505/P1 as i want something with NAV. I have a nice double din opening so the big touchscreen would be nice.

I will have to upgrade to an amp for the interior speakers later as it seems im gonna drop in wrms from the 27 that my current deck has to about 18 with the new one (amp will be cleaner anyways) and i may upgrade the interior speakers but im not sure on that yet.

Thoughts? also do you guys know of any good dedicated car audio forums?

[Sxscdergh]

I'll preface this by saying that it's been a few years since I've really dabbled in car audio, but man do I miss it...especially the bass.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php is a car audio forum I used to visit and it's very active so you should be able to get some good info/help there.

One thing I'd really recommend is putting an amp on those components speakers. I dunno the specs of the JL TR components, but most component speakers starve when being run off a head unit, and really come to life when amplified. This becomes even more of a factor if you plan on really upping the low-end power.

I also used to build sub enclosures, and just want to say don't overlook the box! Make sure to get one that is custom-designed for your particular subs, power, and the type of sound you are going for (SQ, SPL, SQL).

[chinesemedicine]

I'll preface this by saying that it's been a few years since I've really dabbled in car audio, but man do I miss it...especially the bass.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php is a car audio forum I used to visit and it's very active so you should be able to get some good info/help there.

One thing I'd really recommend is putting an amp on those components speakers. I dunno the specs of the JL TR components, but most component speakers starve when being run off a head unit, and really come to life when amplified. This becomes even more of a factor if you plan on really upping the low-end power.

I also used to build sub enclosures, and just want to say don't overlook the box! Make sure to get one that is custom-designed for your particular subs, power, and the type of sound you are going for (SQ, SPL, SQL).

yeah i do intend to amp the components down the road but not right away. My current head unit puts out a bit power power then most.

As far as the box i always build them myself to manufacturer specs for that particular sub. This time around ill probably go with a sealed enclosure for max SQ

[gSjQEEmq]

I am partial to JL audio myself.

The Alpine woofer makes me nervous because it's hard to find detailed specs for it. After a lot of searching I found it's efficiency rating is 82 db, compared to 84.3 for the JL.

Anyways just my thoughts I haven't done anything with car audio for quite a while, And even then I didn't do much, added a modest amp and some Alpine speakers to one car, One of my friends used to have some JL subs in his car though, and they impressed me.

[chinesemedicine]

I am partial to JL audio myself.

The Alpine woofer makes me nervous because it's hard to find detailed specs for it. After a lot of searching I found it's efficiency rating is 82 db, compared to 84.3 for the JL.

Anyways just my thoughts I haven't done anything with car audio for quite a while, And even then I didn't do much, added a modest amp and some Alpine speakers to one car, One of my friends used to have some JL subs in his car though, and they impressed me.

all of the detailed specs for the type x are in the owners manual

http://support.alpine-usa.com/produc..._SWX-1043D.PDF

[cabonuserollyo]

I highly reccomend Image Dynamics for your subwoofer, along with Hybrid Audio for your component speakers. JL makes nice equipment, but I feel they are overpriced.

DIYMobileAudio is a great resource.

I'll post more info when I get back to my computer.

Edit: my reccomendations are based on sq not spl.

[FsQGF1Mp]

My wife has one JL 10w7. It is a REALLY good speaker. It keeps up with my antiquated pair of 12w3's.

Only problem is that it costs about 550 to 650 bucks. Don't go by the efficiency rating either. That W7 would probably whoop that Alpine.

I like Alpine more for head units and components.

I'd reccommend one 10w7 with the JL 500/1 amp. You need a lot of space to have 2 of those 10s. Did you see the size of those things!

Also, get an amp on your component speakers if you can.

Edit, just noticed JL is having a sale...$500 for the 10w7.

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/index.php

[hacyOrgachbic]

So first here is what i have now

Alpine CDA-9835 (27wrmsx4) great sounding deck just show its age
JL TR 6.5" Components front
JL TR 6.5" Coaxials rear
Alpine 12" Type R ported (new style type r)
600wrms Alpine Amp

Looking to start with upgrading subs and headunit and interior speakers down the road. Looking to improve both SQ and SPL of the subs. The 2 setups i was considering were.

2x Alpine Type X 10" in a sealed box with a 2000wrms alpine amp
2x JL 10W7 in a sealed box with a JL 1000wrms amp

As for the headunit i was thinking something along the lines of the Alpine IVA-W505/P1 as i want something with NAV. I have a nice double din opening so the big touchscreen would be nice.

I will have to upgrade to an amp for the interior speakers later as it seems im gonna drop in wrms from the 27 that my current deck has to about 18 with the new one (amp will be cleaner anyways) and i may upgrade the interior speakers but im not sure on that yet.

Thoughts? also do you guys know of any good dedicated car audio forums?

My advice would be this:

Keep the Alpine CDA-9835, it's one of the last of Alpines good decks. It can do 3 way active, time alignment and all that good stuff. Alpine has gone down the drain the last few years. If you need navigation buy a stand alone Garmin or Tom Tom GPS. It'll be cheaper then some stupid touch screen unit that loses all the SQ goodies you already have.

Ditch the JL components and the rear speakers. Either go the DIY route with the drivers or pick up a pair of Pioneer TS-D1720C, which are 90% the performance of Pioneer Premier TS-C720PRS PRS at nearly a 1/5th of the price. The PRS hold their own to some top end DIY drivers by Seas and Scanspeak.

Get a 75+ watt x 4 amp to go active (every speaker has it's own amp, no passive crossover, your Alpine would be the active crossover plus Time Alignment works much better when you run active.). You don't need to have fancy overpriced amps like JL, Brax, and Genesis, etc. Anything that does rated power will be fine and you can find deals on a few audio forums (I'll list some below) on used equipment.

Go with a single 15" sub sealed sub if you have the space (you should the space since you run a 12" ported and want to run two 10" sealed). A single 15" sub will have more cone area, displace more air, and be cheaper than two 10" subs. Basically it'll sound better and louder with less effort. Don't believe the old myth that 15"s and 18" are sloppy. For a sub I'd probably go with a Fi Q15. You probably wouldn't need to upgrade your sub amp. BTW there's nothing wrong with the JL W7's, but they are overpriced for what they are. They are good SQ subs but you can get just as good cheaper. And yes that single Q15 can displace more air (that means more bass, less effort) than two 10W7's and is much much cheaper and you don't have to buy a new sub amp.

Most stuff you can buy at Best Buy or Boutique shops are overpriced for what they are. If you go to some of these Internet Direct companies or the DIY route you can get much better results that are cheaper.

Car audio forums:
www.diymobileaudio.com/forum
www.caraudio.com/forum

But be warned that those forums are full of "omg wat sub shud I buyz?" and "can I has 160db off my 10" kenwood?" morons. There's some good info but you have to dig for it. If you're civil and contribute I can get you an invite to a private car audio forum that more mature users who help based on your needs and not what's hot at that moment.

DIYMobileAudio is a great resource.

Yeah diymobileaudio USED to be good.. There is still good info and some good people over there (I rarely visit anymore) but it's buried in crap and too few and far between. It was awesome when npdang owned the site and not the current owner who only uses the place to pimp his products to the noobs.

The Alpine woofer makes me nervous because it's hard to find detailed specs for it. After a lot of searching I found it's efficiency rating is 82 db, compared to 84.3 for the JL.

Most mainstream companies do not publish detailed specs because the consumer product usually varies from that by a wide margin. Even DIY brands vary more often then not. Unless you have a kippel machine or another device that measures T/S specs you're pretty much just shooting in the dark on an "average" measured spec. All good DIY speaker builders have those devices so they can get matched pairs and know the exact specs to build the enclosure that'll achieve their goals.

One of my friends used to have some JL subs in his car though, and they impressed me.

:P Yeah that was in the late 90's man. I had a pair of 12w0's which are sub par these days and then I upgraded to a pair of 10w3's which are about average these days. Back then 15mm of Xmax (10w3's) was nearly unheard of back then. If want big bass in small space you need the 20mm+ Xmax subs now.

I don't have anything installed in my car anymore. I have some stuff waiting to be installed but stuff like family and what not gets in the way.

I have two of these subs now (thought about one for the car and one for a 2.1 music setup.. but that may change):

DIYMA 12 (discontinued)






Features:

* Heavy 12 spoke cast aluminum basket.
* Massive 3”x 2” 4 layer copper voice coil wound on a black aluminum former for high thermal powerhandling.
* Custom machined aluminum ring and thick pole sleeve for ultra low driver inductance and inductance related distortion.
* Dual spider design improves mechanical powerhandling and stability.
* Sewn-in tinsel leads prevents dreaded “tinsel lead slap” noise.
* Ventilation beneath the spider and through the large pole vent maximizes voice coil cooling.
* Durable, long lasting rubber surround.
* Removable one piece rubber gasket provides an air tight seal for mounting.
* White anodized aluminum cone.
* Spring loaded terminals for easy connection.
* Attractive multi-magnet motor
* Extremely low distortion and BL compression

Specs:

* Acceptable enclosure size: .25 to 1.5cft sealed box (larger enclosures INCREASE powerhandling)
* Acceptable amplifer power range: 200 to 1000 watts per sub
* Recommended for typical SQ use: 1cft + 300 watt amplifier power
* Single 4 ohm voice coil
* QTS: .354
* FS: 25hz
* VAS: 41.7 L
* RE: 3.6 Ohm
* BL: 22
* SPL: 84.3 dbwm
* Le: 1.3mh
* Xmax: 23mm 1 way (71% bl, 25% cms)
* Xmech: 64mm peak to peak
* Weight: 37 lbs
* Cutout diameter: 28cm
* Mounting depth: 16cm
* Driver volume: .15 cft

I can't wait to use them...

Ryan

[chinesemedicine]

My wife has one JL 10w7. It is a REALLY good speaker. It keeps up with my antiquated pair of 12w3's.

Only problem is that it costs about 550 to 650 bucks. Don't go by the efficiency rating either. That W7 would probably whoop that Alpine.

I like Alpine more for head units and components.

I'd reccommend one 10w7 with the JL 500/1 amp. You need a lot of space to have 2 of those 10s. Did you see the size of those things!

Also, get an amp on your component speakers if you can.

Edit, just noticed JL is having a sale...$500 for the 10w7.

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/index.php

actually i have quite a few jl setups in the past

10w3 on a 500/1
10w6 on a 500/1
2x 12w6v2's on a 1000/1
12w7 on a 1000/1
10w7 on a 500/1

Output wise i want something in the 12w7, or the 2x 12w6v2 range the 500/1 and 10w7 wasnt enough.


And |Tch0rT| my only hesitation there is that ive never heard that sub, alot of this is subjective, ive personally heard every alpine and jl sub pretty much so i know what to expect for SQ.

and as far as switching my deck out cant i just get an outboard audio processor for the alpine nav unit? i would otherwise probably have to get my 9835 repaired. and the ipod interface is horrible on my 9835

[hacyOrgachbic]

And |Tch0rT| my only hesitation there is that ive never heard that sub, alot of this is subjective, ive personally heard every alpine and jl sub pretty much so i know what to expect for SQ.

and as far as switching my deck out cant i just get an outboard audio processor for the alpine nav unit? i would otherwise probably have to get my 9835 repaired. and the ipod interface is horrible on my 9835

You've heard Alpine & JL Audio's entire line up of subs in your car? Unless you've heard the speakers in your car you're blindly buying anyhow. It may sound good in your friend's car, demo car, or show room but that doesn't mean it'll sound the same in your car. In car audio the car itself is going to dictate everything else. Car > Installation > Gear. Anyway I haven't heard the Fi sub yet either but I'd take it over Alpine or JL any day based on that Fi is designed by a guy who used to design subs for RE Audio (another great underground car audio company), their closeness to another Internet Direct company Ascendant Audio (yet another underground car audio company), and many user reports on their SQ abilities and can play loud.

Bass is the easiest part of car audio. It's also a very small spectrum of music that's over emphasized and over blown. All of Alpine and JL's line up (other than the W7 series) is nothing special. Its old technology that gets re-marketed every few years as something new to get you to buy their overpriced stuff again. Sure the W7 series (especially the 12W7) are great subs, they are way overpriced for what they are.

First and foremost your biggest upgrade in SQ is going to be from better components with a dedicated amp, preferably going active. It'll even help with the bass sounding better. Half of what people attribute to the SQ of their sub is actually how well your components are at reproduction of mid bass.

What's wrong with your Alpine? It's probably worth getting fixed. Yeah you can get a PXA-H701 for external processing for that NAV unit but why if your deck already has 75% of what the H701 is able to do?

You must have some serious money to spend or something because a pair of JL 10W7's, JL 1000/1 amp, Alpine IVA-W505/P1 head unit, and an Alpine PXA-H701 processor is like $3500+ alone. For that kind of money one could build an amazing simple SQ with some top end DIY drivers, good amps, and a good install.

Ryan

[FsQGF1Mp]

You've heard Alpine & JL Audio's entire line up of subs in your car? Unless you've heard the speakers in your car you're blindly buying anyhow. It may sound good in your friend's car, demo car, or show room but that doesn't mean it'll sound the same in your car. In car audio the car itself is going to dictate everything else. Car > Installation > Gear. Anyway I haven't heard the Fi sub yet either but I'd take it over Alpine or JL any day based on that Fi is designed by a guy who used to design subs for RE Audio (another great underground car audio company), their closeness to another Internet Direct company Ascendant Audio (yet another underground car audio company), and many user reports on their SQ abilities and can play loud.

Bass is the easiest part of car audio. It's also a very small spectrum of music that's over emphasized and over blown. All of Alpine and JL's line up (other than the W7 series) is nothing special. Its old technology that gets re-marketed every few years as something new to get you to buy their overpriced stuff again. Sure the W7 series (especially the 12W7) are great subs, they are way overpriced for what they are.

First and foremost your biggest upgrade in SQ is going to be from better components with a dedicated amp, preferably going active. It'll even help with the bass sounding better. Half of what people attribute to the SQ of their sub is actually how well your components are at reproduction of mid bass.

What's wrong with your Alpine? It's probably worth getting fixed. Yeah you can get a PXA-H701 for external processing for that NAV unit but why if your deck already has 75% of what the H701 is able to do?

You must have some serious money to spend or something because a pair of JL 10W7's, JL 1000/1 amp, Alpine IVA-W505/P1 head unit, and an Alpine PXA-H701 processor is like $3500+ alone. For that kind of money one could build an amazing simple SQ with some top end DIY drivers, good amps, and a good install.

Ryan

I'd have to agree with you there. It get's expensive real quick.

You seem like you know your stuff. Would a JL 500/1 amp(what I have now) be able to handle a 12w7?

I think my 2 12w3's are really showing their age. They seem to "bottom out" now. I had them for around 10 years and I think they just got really worn out over the years.

[hacyOrgachbic]

You seem like you know your stuff. Would a JL 500/1 amp(what I have now) be able to handle a 12w7?

I think my 2 12w3's are really showing their age. They seem to "bottom out" now. I had them for around 10 years and I think they just got really worn out over the years.

A JL 500/1 would be fine for a 12W7, you would be getting a true 500 watts RMS to the sub. It won't allow the 12W7 to reach it's full SPL potential but SQ wise it will be fine as long as it's in the right box and probably more than enough for most people. BTW a 12W7 can theoretically displace slightly more air than your two 12w3's.

If those 12w3's are the first version then they are close to 11 years old or so. So yeah they could be worn out by now. You also might want to check to see if your box has any leaks that could cause the bottoming out sound.

Ryan

[chinesemedicine]

You've heard Alpine & JL Audio's entire line up of subs in your car? Unless you've heard the speakers in your car you're blindly buying anyhow. It may sound good in your friend's car, demo car, or show room but that doesn't mean it'll sound the same in your car. In car audio the car itself is going to dictate everything else. Car > Installation > Gear. Anyway I haven't heard the Fi sub yet either but I'd take it over Alpine or JL any day based on that Fi is designed by a guy who used to design subs for RE Audio (another great underground car audio company), their closeness to another Internet Direct company Ascendant Audio (yet another underground car audio company), and many user reports on their SQ abilities and can play loud.

Bass is the easiest part of car audio. It's also a very small spectrum of music that's over emphasized and over blown. All of Alpine and JL's line up (other than the W7 series) is nothing special. Its old technology that gets re-marketed every few years as something new to get you to buy their overpriced stuff again. Sure the W7 series (especially the 12W7) are great subs, they are way overpriced for what they are.

First and foremost your biggest upgrade in SQ is going to be from better components with a dedicated amp, preferably going active. It'll even help with the bass sounding better. Half of what people attribute to the SQ of their sub is actually how well your components are at reproduction of mid bass.

What's wrong with your Alpine? It's probably worth getting fixed. Yeah you can get a PXA-H701 for external processing for that NAV unit but why if your deck already has 75% of what the H701 is able to do?

You must have some serious money to spend or something because a pair of JL 10W7's, JL 1000/1 amp, Alpine IVA-W505/P1 head unit, and an Alpine PXA-H701 processor is like $3500+ alone. For that kind of money one could build an amazing simple SQ with some top end DIY drivers, good amps, and a good install.

Ryan

yes ive heard those subs in my car, see that list above those have been systems ive had over the years in my car. Ive also had a single Alpine Type X 12" on an alpine 1000w amp. and like i said the reason i want to switch out my head unit is i want something with NAV. 7" touchscreen > 4.3" tomtom. That and something with a more modern ipod interface, 9835 sucks for that. And i do plan on upgrading my interior speakers later.

I guess the bottom line is i have no plans on blind buying a sub. i was more so curious on the 2 setups i mentioned or some other combo from that company

[hacyOrgachbic]

yes ive heard those subs in my car, see that list above those have been systems ive had over the years in my car. Ive also had a single Alpine Type X 12" on an alpine 1000w amp. and like i said the reason i want to switch out my head unit is i want something with NAV. 7" touchscreen > 4.3" tomtom. That and something with a more modern ipod interface, 9835 sucks for that. And i do plan on upgrading my interior speakers later.

I guess the bottom line is i have no plans on blind buying a sub. i was more so curious on the 2 setups i mentioned or some other combo from that company

I mean no disrespect, it's your money do with it what you want. You wanted some suggestions and I gave you suggestions geared towards bang for your buck. It's fine that you want a Nav unit, but IMO you're spending a whole **** load of money on an iPod interface and a slightly larger screen at a loss of SQ tools. All I'm saying is you can do better and cheaper than Alpine and JL Audio.

Ryan

[chinesemedicine]

I mean no disrespect, it's your money do with it what you want. You wanted some suggestions and I gave you suggestions geared towards bang for your buck but it looks like you like the Bling Bling and that's cool if that's what you like. It's also fine that you want a Nav unit, but IMO you're spending a whole **** load of money on an iPod interface and a slightly larger screen at a loss of SQ tools. All I'm saying is you can do better and cheaper than Alpine and JL Audio.

Ryan

"Bling bling" WTH are you talking about, wether u think JL is overpriced or not aside the w7 is still a damn good driver, i didnt ask what can i get thats cheaper and still sounds good did i?

And as far as the nav unit i can get the external audio processor as mentioned before....

And this is all subjective really anyways, what you suggested may be better in your opinion or perhaps "better for the money" but im not gonna buy from a compnay ive never heard of till some random person on the internet was like omg they are amazin and JL is teh sux noob

[BrandandGeneric]

"Bling bling" WTH are you talking about, wether u think JL is overpriced or not aside the w7 is still a damn good driver, i didnt ask what can i get thats cheaper and still sounds good did i?

And as far as the nav unit i can get the external audio processor as mentioned before....

And this is all subjective really anyways, what you suggested may be better in your opinion or perhaps "better for the money" but im not gonna buy from a compnay ive never heard of till some random person on the internet was like omg they are amazin and JL is teh sux noob

You'll have to forgive him. He thought you wanted suggestions on what quality audio products you could put in your car. If all you wanted was someone to say "JL rocks man!" you should have made your thread title "POST HERE IF JL ROCKS!!!!!11one"

It appears you have no interest in researching various audio brands and just want to go with JL because you like JL. Then by all means do it, but his suggestions are sound. There are plenty of owners and reviews for the brands he's mentioned. It's pointless to even ask for advice if you refuse to buy something you haven't owned before.

[hacyOrgachbic]

"Bling bling" WTH are you talking about, wether u think JL is overpriced or not aside the w7 is still a damn good driver, i didnt ask what can i get thats cheaper and still sounds good did i?

And as far as the nav unit i can get the external audio processor as mentioned before....

And this is all subjective really anyways, what you suggested may be better in your opinion or perhaps "better for the money" but im not gonna buy from a compnay ive never heard of till some random person on the internet was like omg they are amazin and JL is teh sux noob

I edited out the Bling Bling thing but anyway... two 10w7's with a 2000 watt Alpine amp a $1400 Nav unit with a $500 external DSP and not upgrading your mids and highs where it's going to make the most difference in sound quality is kinda like putting 26" spinner rims on a rusted out box Chevy. There's nothing wrong with it since it's your money but there's better, cheaper, and more beneficial choices then what you're limiting yourself to.

BTW I never said the W7 series was bad. In fact it's on the best SQ subs ever made, it has some of the lowest THD you will ever find on a sub. BUT it's hard to justify the price on something that plays such a small percentage of music.

Yes it's all subjective! [thumbup] You should join one of those car audio groups. I'm not saying Fi Audio is teh best eva, I'm just saying that's something along the lines I would pick. I'm not saying JL Audio sux, all I'm saying about them is they are over priced for what they are.

Join some car audio forums, ask some questions and find out some more info before you buy.

BTW you should at least give Fi Audio or some other Internet Direct underground car audio companies a look. You might find something you like.

http://www.ficaraudio.com/
http://www.ascendantaudio.com/
http://www.elementaldesigns.com/
http://www.stereointegrity.com/
http://www.reaudio.com/ (not ID anymore but they started out that way)
http://www.audiopulse.com/ (Formerly TC Sounds, they made the old Eclipse Aluminum cone subs)

Ryan

[chinesemedicine]

You'll have to forgive him. He thought you wanted suggestions on what quality audio products you could put in your car. If all you wanted was someone to say "JL rocks man!" you should have made your thread title "POST HERE IF JL ROCKS!!!!!11one"

It appears you have no interest in researching various audio brands and just want to go with JL because you like JL. Then by all means do it, but his suggestions are sound. There are plenty of owners and reviews for the brands he's mentioned. It's pointless to even ask for advice if you refuse to buy something you haven't owned before.

What i wanted was thoughts on the 2 setups i posted the and installation issue i would run into with the alpine setup.....

I edited out the Bling Bling thing but anyway... two 10w7's with a 2000 watt Alpine amp a $1400 Nav unit with a $500 external DSP and not upgrading your mids and highs where it's going to make the most difference in sound quality is kinda like putting 26" spinner rims on a rusted out box Chevy. There's nothing wrong with it since it's your money but there's better, cheaper, and more beneficial choices then what you're limiting yourself to.

BTW I never said the W7 series was bad. In fact it's on the best SQ subs ever made, it has some of the lowest THD you will ever find on a sub. BUT it's hard to justify the price on something that plays such a small percentage of music.

Yes it's all subjective! [thumbup] You should join one of those car audio groups. I'm not saying Fi Audio is teh best eva, I'm just saying that's something along the lines I would pick. I'm not saying JL Audio sux, all I'm saying about them is they are over priced for what they are.

Join some car audio forums, ask some questions and find out some more info before you buy.

BTW you should at least give Fi Audio or some other Internet Direct underground car audio companies a look. You might find something you like.

http://www.ficaraudio.com/
http://www.ascendantaudio.com/
http://www.elementaldesigns.com/
http://www.stereointegrity.com/
http://www.reaudio.com/ (not ID anymore but they started out that way)
http://www.audiopulse.com/ (Formerly TC Sounds, they made the old Eclipse Aluminum cone subs)

Ryan

its just hard to justify buying something ive never heard before, for all my home theater gear i was at least able to go demo it before buying it.

edit: and ive said like 4 times i do plan on upgrading my mids and highs (and an amp for them)