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Old 04-13-2009, 04:37 PM   #1
WenPyclenoWex

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It sounds like a lot of work for an old car. I like.

I'm wanting to put a 2.0T engine with a 6 speed gearbox into a mk2 GTi when I get out of school. Similar level of pain, similar reward (~250hp, 2200lb car). This sounds like a project that will require fairly deep pockets though.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:50 PM   #2
masterboyz

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Just finished up the last of the wheels.



This is what the wheel on the right looked like before I did all the work on it.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:17 PM   #3
janeemljr

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saving 80 lbs to get that V6 rather than an LSx engine does not seem worth it to me at all.

you are already talking about modding the engine, people have been modding the LS2 alone for nearly 5 years. all the R&D has been done for headwork, headers, CAI, Cams etc. etc. its cheaper, and responds well to said mods, Dyno tuners know the engine, and can REALLY wake them up.

and your v6 wont ever do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IRLV...om=PL&index=59
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:28 PM   #4
BamSaitinypap

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How stupid. "lets see your ### do this". When BMW first released their V12 they put a glass of water actually on their engine to show that it didn't even create a ripple, a feat of engineering.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:42 PM   #5
violetgorman

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How stupid. "lets see your ### do this". When BMW first released their V12 they put a glass of water actually on their engine to show that it didn't even create a ripple, a feat of engineering.
Not to mention those that put a coin ON EDGE on their running engines ...

BMW V12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-LLX9UQnV0&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qyox...eature=related
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:42 PM   #6
HedoShoodovex

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Good luck with that, man. Sounds like quite a (fun) project.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:43 PM   #7
violetgorman

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saving 80 lbs to get that V6 rather than an LSx engine does not seem worth it to me at all.

you are already talking about modding the engine, people have been modding the LS2 alone for nearly 5 years. all the R&D has been done for headwork, headers, CAI, Cams etc. etc. its cheaper, and responds well to said mods, Dyno tuners know the engine, and can REALLY wake them up.

and your v6 wont ever do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IRLV...om=PL&index=59
Really don't get it, do you? [rolleyes]
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:57 PM   #8
BamSaitinypap

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Not to mention those that put a coin ON EDGE on their running engines ...

BMW V12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-LLX9UQnV0&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qyox...eature=related
Have you heard of BMW's secret car, the 'Goldfish"? It had a V16 engine, with a 6 speed manual. It would have sounded so bloody awesome.

http://www.zorro.milk-maid.de/scans/e32_v16.pdf
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:08 PM   #9
violetgorman

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Have you heard of BMW's secret car, the 'Goldfish"? It had a V16 engine, with a 6 speed manual. It would have sounded so bloody awesome.

http://www.zorro.milk-maid.de/scans/e32_v16.pdf
There are a couple of sound clips of the BRM V16 or H16 F1 car on the net - can't recall exactly which it is - they made both!
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:12 PM   #10
BamSaitinypap

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Yeah I used to listen to it all the time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tK8BfoTLG4


I can only imagine what a 6.7 litre V16 would sound like. Even better if it didn't have a muffler on it!
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:37 PM   #11
janeemljr

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Really don't get it, do you? [rolleyes]
theres nothing to get, the only thing he is going on is weight savings.


someone explain how the 80 lbs savings of that engine is going to be more beneficial than the power EASILY available from an LSx... bueller.... bueller

the video wasnt to show water shake smartasses, it's to demonstrate the awesomeness that is a cam swap on the LSx

and I dont get it?

edit: he said himself he's crazy, and fruity, i respect what you're doing to the TA, i really do. I think you will come around though... the V6 idea may sound intriguing at first because it isnt the norm, but deep down if you really start doing the numbers/weight/$$...you'll see

edit2: and just starting out 350hp @ 370lbs, or 400hp @450lbs.... hmmm

if 80 lbs is that important, just keep the tank between 1/4-1/2 full
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:05 PM   #12
masterboyz

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saving 80 lbs to get that V6 rather than an LSx engine does not seem worth it to me at all.

you are already talking about modding the engine, people have been modding the LS2 alone for nearly 5 years. all the R&D has been done for headwork, headers, CAI, Cams etc. etc. its cheaper, and responds well to said mods, Dyno tuners know the engine, and can REALLY wake them up.

and your v6 wont ever do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IRLV...om=PL&index=59
How stupid. I hate huge cams in cars. Lope simply means that the engine is barely pulling enough vacuum at idle to run. And I want a street car so those big cams suck.

And it's more than "80lbs". The engine will sit further back. About 8" or so. So it's a huge difference in terms of weight balance.

My car even with the last engine was smooth and quiet at idle.

The LSx engines may have huge potential but the v6 can meet my power needs
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:18 PM   #13
janeemljr

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but you cant deny the power. who cares if its barely running at idle, idle isnt where the fun is. V-6 didnt sound like it met your needs with the addons you spoke of getting off the back. whatever you want though, since thats the point of a custom build, i just agree with your thread title
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:29 PM   #14
masterboyz

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but you cant deny the power. who cares if its barely running at idle, idle isnt where the fun is. V-6 didnt sound like it met your needs with the addons you spoke of getting off the back. whatever you want though, since thats the point of a custom build, i just agree with your thread title
I'm not denying the potential. But I don't think you understand the v6 swaps potential either. It's a fohc variable valve engine. The heads will easily approach the flow numbers of an ls type head. 300cfm wouldn't be hard to get. 400 crank up wouldn't be a problem. And he VVT allows for good idle quality as well.
I'm not interested in yanking the wheels off the ground. I'm more interested in stopping on a dime and turning on rails.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:54 PM   #15
violetgorman

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but you cant deny the power. who cares if its barely running at idle, idle isnt where the fun is. V-6 didnt sound like it met your needs with the addons you spoke of getting off the back. whatever you want though, since thats the point of a custom build, i just agree with your thread title
No, YOU really don't get it - for what HE intends to use the car for, not you, outright power is not only not useful, it is a handicap!
He needs a car that is controlable, has good turn in, braking and transient response - for that a lighter engine is required.

Before you reply, I suggest you actually find out something about "SOLO" (AKA autotest or motokhana) and track racing, rather than simple top speed and acc'n - for that you'd have a point that we'd probably agree with.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/S...307_142261.htm
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=2033154740
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:07 AM   #16
janeemljr

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im familiar with track racing, moreso w/ SCAA than SOLO, and i still stand by my statement that i dont think the handling benefits from 80lbs 8" back would exceed the benefits from more power everywhere. I come from 944 land, where handling is what makes the car what it is, there are lots of suspension modifications out their for 944/951, and people who decided to get a bigger turbo rather than solid bushings all around were pulling quicker lap times at nelson ledges and mid ohio, and the guys that did some suspension mods, AND power... well, they were fast everywhere. if you are a little behind from the turn, it was easy enough to catch up and pass on the next straight. and thats all i think the benefit would be with that config, a little. nothing else on the car would have to change.

and massive torque and acceleration would be bad in an autocross how? dont have to go to the point where you cant have traction, but i know he can fit nice size rubber on that f-body
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:21 AM   #17
masterboyz

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im familiar with track racing, moreso w/ SCAA than SOLO, and i still stand by my statement that i dont think the handling benefits from 80lbs 8" back would exceed the benefits from more power everywhere. I come from 944 land, where handling is what makes the car what it is, there are lots of suspension modifications out their for 944/951, and people who decided to get a bigger turbo rather than solid bushings all around were pulling quicker lap times at nelson ledges and mid ohio, and the guys that did some suspension mods, AND power... well, they were fast everywhere. if you are a little behind from the turn, it was easy enough to catch up and pass on the next straight. and thats all i think the benefit would be with that config, a little. nothing else on the car would have to change.

and massive torque and acceleration would be bad in an autocross how? dont have to go to the point where you cant have traction, but i know he can fit nice size rubber on that f-body
You under estimate the power of the darkside. The advantage of the v6 extends beyond simple weight loss. It's a massve drop off the front of the car. Enough to give it a 50/50 balance or better.

The only way for me to get the weight balance I want with a v8 is to go with a layout like the vette. Front engine. Transmission in the back. Aka a transaxle. The way too much fab work.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:36 AM   #18
janeemljr

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911's have been able to tear around a track like a banshee without 50/50 weight distribution (just have to drive it a little different), and you made it sound like you were already close. little bit of life in the rear is a good thing
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:25 AM   #19
masterboyz

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911's have been able to tear around a track like a banshee without 50/50 weight distribution (just have to drive it a little different), and you made it sound like you were already close. little bit of life in the rear is a good thing
My car is HEAVIER inthe front than it is the rear. 911's are heavier in the rear than the front.

A lighter front end gives more turn in and quicker direction changes.

50/50 is ideal, the v6 will get me there.

There is also polar momentum to consider.

You can have a 50/50 car that turns faster than another 50/50 balanced car. A simple example is to get two 5lb weights and hold them at maximum arms length and try to spin as fast as you can. Now take those same 5lb weights and hold them close to your chest, its much easier to spin. So you get faster transient response from the chassis.

Front heavy cars can whip the tail around quite readily but its a little more sudden and violent than it would be with a less front heavy car.

Then again, I'm not sure if you understand exactly what a 300hp car will net you. With a car like mine 300hp is enough to see north of 160mph. There are several shops out there that do some impressive work on these V6's already and are able to net 400+ from the engine without much work.

The V6 swap is like having your cake, and eating it too.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:57 PM   #20
janeemljr

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my fat pig has 400hp, i think i can guesstimate a lighter vehicle with 300
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