[OccumCymn]

Anyone ever watch this POS "documentary"?

Who Killed the Electric Car?

POS? I Loved that documentary, and angry that GM killed it even though I live in the UK.

[fuesquemill]

POS? I Loved that documentary, and angry that GM killed it even though I live in the UK.

Eh if electrical cars became the norm, then we need to severly update our power infrastructure. Not to mention, this would highly increase the demand for electricity, and most plants are coal and oil...It might not be the all around savior everyone thinks.

[ElisasAUG]

Eh if electrical cars became the norm, then we need to severly update our power infrastructure. Not to mention, this would highly increase the demand for electricity, and most plants are coal and oil...It might not be the all around savior everyone thinks.

No, its not pollution free. We have to generate it somehow. But even a coal plant is more efficient than a IC engine at converting fuel to energy. The average IC engine is only 25% efficient, 3/4 of the energy produced is wasted as heat. Its one of the reasons I am Pro forced induction, even in a passenger car designed to do nothing but get groceries. The average n/a has a volumetric efficiency of about 80 to 90%. But a forced induction engine can easily achieve 100% and as high as 120%. If turbo's had no lag they would be the ultimate technology for a car. Anti-lag systems don't count though, they are extremely tough on the exhaust system.

[OccumCymn]

Eh if electrical cars became the norm, then we need to severly update our power infrastructure. Not to mention, this would highly increase the demand for electricity, and most plants are coal and oil...It might not be the all around savior everyone thinks.

Solar panels on every house, Renewable power and Nuclear could solve the generation problem. Also if everybody worked, socialised, sent kids to local schools and shopped locally could reduce the power needed for transportation. Most of the worlds power infrastructure is well over due for being upgraded already due to our unsustainable desire to have more than 2 kids.

[Cibirrigmavog]

Eh if electrical cars became the norm, then we need to severly update our power infrastructure. Not to mention, this would highly increase the demand for electricity, and most plants are coal and oil...It might not be the all around savior everyone thinks.

That update of the power infrastructure is needed without electric cars, so the costs for the additional upgrades are not that big. You could configure the charges so they don't charge at peak times which are the biggest problem (the largest activity would be when the people come home from work, which is when the other consumption drops).

You can't run a car on coal and IC engines have such a poor efficency (35%, not counting anything that happens after the engine) that you can burn oil in a modern cogeneration powerplant (80%+ efficent), send it into a battery (7% loss), run an electric motor (up to 90% efficent) of that battery (80%) and still have a higher efficency.

[Zzvukttz]

EV = Tree hugger owners IMO. I myself am not a fan of electric cars. They have no appeal to me what so ever. They may be good for short trips to work and back but thats about it.


I live in the DC area and the beach is 160 miles from me. What would I do when the battery is getting low? Would I stop at somebodys house and say "hey mind if I use your electricity to recharge my car while I sit here for a couple hours with my thumb up my @$$ waiting for it to recharge?

EV = FAIL for an all around do everything car.

EV = daily work commute. I would be happy to drive one to work daily. I don't even drive my current daily work car for trips. The EV is for city life imo thats about it until they get better range. And in the city majority of the commute is to work.

[ferelrossi]

If turbo's had no lag they would be the ultimate technology for a car.

There's not any noticeable turbo lag in my car

Just nice smooth power delivery all the way from idle.

I was worried there would be and it was an unfounded fear.

It is a rather small turbo,still it's very nice.


Forced Induction+hydrogen instead of gasoline is my pick for what we should do for now.

[fuesquemill]

No, its not pollution free. We have to generate it somehow. But even a coal plant is more efficient than a IC engine at converting fuel to energy. The average IC engine is only 25% efficient, 3/4 of the energy produced is wasted as heat. Its one of the reasons I am Pro forced induction, even in a passenger car designed to do nothing but get groceries. The average n/a has a volumetric efficiency of about 80 to 90%. But a forced induction engine can easily achieve 100% and as high as 120%. If turbo's had no lag they would be the ultimate technology for a car. Anti-lag systems don't count though, they are extremely tough on the exhaust system.

Fair enough

Solar panels on every house, Renewable power and Nuclear could solve the generation problem. Also if everybody worked, socialised, sent kids to local schools and shopped locally could reduce the power needed for transportation. Most of the worlds power infrastructure is well over due for being upgraded already due to our unsustainable desire to have more than 2 kids.

Socialism is not the answer to anything first of all, and most people already shop locally (within 10 miles of their house)...who wouldn't? Not to mention, solar panels? You going to buy those for me? Solar panels are very expensive and to have enough of them to power a house would be way too expensive...that's not a solution until the costs get lowered greatly.

[GlarlraTpople]

Socialism is not the answer to anything first of all,

Where did he mention anything about Socialism?

[fuesquemill]

Where did he mention anything about Socialism?

Maybe Im reading what he said wrong then

Thought he saying everything should be socialized

[GlarlraTpople]

Maybe Im reading what he said wrong then

Thought he saying everything should be socialized

What he said was:

Also if everybody worked, socialised, sent kids to local schools and shopped locally
as in spending time with people

[OccumCymn]

Fair enough



Socialism is not the answer to anything first of all, and most people already shop locally (within 10 miles of their house)...who wouldn't? Not to mention, solar panels? You going to buy those for me? Solar panels are very expensive and to have enough of them to power a house would be way too expensive...that's not a solution until the costs get lowered greatly.

Solar panels could never provide all the power, but if every roof had solar panels on them, the combined energy produced would certainly help. In the UK, you can get grants for this sort of stuff, including wind turbines, solar water heaters, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, double glazing..............

[Cibirrigmavog]

Socialism is not the answer to anything first of all, and most people already shop locally (within 10 miles of their house)...who wouldn't? Not to mention, solar panels? You going to buy those for me? Solar panels are very expensive and to have enough of them to power a house would be way too expensive...that's not a solution until the costs get lowered greatly.

I could be evil and say that the costs would drop if people were forced to buy.

A tax credit would do, but you would have to adjust it every 6 months or so to keep the pricedrops in production coming through to the retail price (Germany did screwed up with their solar policy that increases their electricity prices and keeps solar panel prices high). Also the credit can only be so big that it makes sense to use them in sunny areas of the USA, not the whole country. Otherwise it would be too expensive and prohibit the development of technologies that do not depend on the sun.

However, due to the fact that solar panels produce electricity when its sunny, hence all the ACs run on full blast which usually brings the grid to its limits, they could be a solution to improve stability of the power grid in some areas but you need to be very carefull how you increase their usage.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

That's your personal preference.

But we don't all share your preference as we don't make such long trips with a car many times a year. No one is forcing you to use an electric car, we, who find it useful, just want to have an option to buy one.

About charge time: LiFePo4 batteries can be recharged in 5 minutes from empty, if you have powerful enough charger.

Yeah I understand exactly what you are saying. Problem is for alot of people around here is the long commute. Alot of people that work here live a state away up in PA, VA or WV and have long 2+ hour one way commutes each day. So far a purely electric car cant do it and the hybrids are a joke.

[Cibirrigmavog]

Yeah I understand exactly what you are saying. Problem is for alot of people around here is the long commute. Alot of people that work here live a state away up in PA, VA or WV and have long 2+ hour one way commutes each day. So far a purely electric car cant do it and the hybrids are a joke.

So 250 miles wouldn't be enough?

[ferelrossi]

So 250 miles wouldn't be enough?

Probably not eh as he's describing a trip thats probably close to 400 miles.

[GlarlraTpople]

Probably not eh as he's describing a trip thats probably close to 400 miles.

To do 400 miles in 2 hours you'd have to drive at 200mph!

Unless you're thinking you wouldn't charge up at work, but I don't see any reason why not.

[Cibirrigmavog]

Probably not eh as he's describing a trip thats probably close to 400 miles.

You forget that people charge overnight, go to work plug in, then go back (at least with EVs). So it's the single trips that count.

[ferelrossi]

To do 400 miles in 2 hours you'd have to drive at 200mph!

Unless you're thinking you wouldn't charge up at work, but I don't see any reason why not.

2 hour commute each way,i did mess up slightly but you're not taking in to account it's a 2 hour each way drive.

Lets assume you average 60mph for two hours,that's 120 miles in two hours. 120+120=240 miles so yeah.

That also rules out charging your car overnight,since they're at work not home. *cough*

Also batteries sharply drop off in effeceincy,I doubt in any real world situation that an electric car will actually go 240 miles on one charge in real world situations.

I also doubt people's workplaces will allow them to plug their car in and run the electricity bill up at work,nor would there be anough outlets for everyone anyway.

Not a very practical solution at this time.

[ElisasAUG]

2 hour commute each way,i did mess up slightly but you're not taking in to account it's a 2 hour each way drive.

Lets assume you average 60mph for two hours,that's 120 miles in two hours. 120+120=240 miles so yeah.

That also rules out charging your car overnight,since they're at work not home. *cough*

Also batteries sharply drop off in effeceincy,I doubt in any real world situation that an electric car will actually go 240 miles on one charge in real world situations.

I also doubt people's workplaces will allow them to plug their car in and run the electricity bill up at work,nor would there be anough outlets for everyone anyway.

Not a very practical solution at this time.

I was going to bring that point up. One or two people using company electricity to charge their cars isn't a problem. But if every employee did, then either a metering system would have to be put in place, or the company would have to allow/disallow employees from using the company's electricity to charge their cars.

That could get expensive for the company.