[Annewsded]

No offense lenny, but that's a pretty retarded mindset you have there. When you go to a different country, you adapt to their customs. While Taxis are expensive, do you not realize that the Taxi company is the one making most of that money? Intentionally shafting the driver is not getting your point across, because you're taking your anger and ignorance out on the wrong guy.

No offense Acupuncture. I'm referring to Australian taxies. Cubase is Aussie, and in Australia we don't tip. However in Sydney since it's an international hub, the practice is growing because of this outside influence. Unlike the US our bar thenders etc are paid higher wages. There is no need to tip in Australia. However on the odd occasion if someone does an exceptional job then I guess there is nothing wrong.

As I said, I tipped in the US! Only sometimes I wasn't sure where I should or should not.

[Annewsded]

Waiters, bartenders, cabbies, bums, he doesn't descriminate, he shafts them all! [rofl]

hehechichichi!!! [rofl]

someone make a sig. http://www.wrensnestonline.com/blog/...oge-mcduck.jpg

[Annewsded]

• I dunno how my g/f is going to cope when we move to the US.

• Actually there have been many occasions where i have tipped, and then caught her taking it back as I get up to leave. Sad really as it begins and endless cycle resulting in arguments like this.

What's this moving to the US? I thought you were heading to Japan. [shocked]

As for your GF. You seem like a funny couple since you seem to have some complete opposite views. You're a pretty outgoing bloke, she seems more quiet. Just an observation.

[lmHVYs8e]

Yeah dude, I think everyone gets your principle but it isn't going to happen so if you were to come to the US and eat at a full service restaurant and based on your current principles you would be considered a cheapskate and would receive very poor service if you were to return. I don't understand why it is so hard for you to swallow that fact that not everything works the same around the world. It is a extremely basic concept and you aren't changing the world, let alone anything, preaching your beliefs. [rofl]

I never said that if I visited America (and I have, but only as a child) I wouldn't tip. I would, but only because it's the done thing. When in Rome and all that...

[Hamucevasiop]

I never said that if I visited America (and I have, but only as a child) I wouldn't tip. I would, but only because it's the done thing. When in Rome and all that...

Alright, well that is good to hear.

[popandopulus]

Bearing in mind I live in NYC, this is what I tip

- Restaurants: 15% if it's awful, 20% of it's good more if it's excellent
- Hair Cuts: Where I go, it's $50 for a cut. I give my regular hairdresser $20 (40%)
- Hotels $1 per bag for the guy who opens the car door and gets them out, same to the guy who takes them to the room, plus another buck (usually this is out of town, Chicago etc).
- Bars. $1 a drink to the barman/woman. If I make a big order or stay for 2 or 3, I'll probably just tip $5 at the start of the night and be done with it
- Sandwich shops/take out coffes - I usually drop the change
- Cafes - might drop a buck if I stay in for a coffee and cake, especially if I'm staying in to write a paper or something this is pretty much polite protocol across the US. I basically do exactly like you do, the exception being I pretty much always just tip 20% no matter how poor the service is. I used to bartend and wait tables, so I relate to their plight. Basically, I tip 18-20% no matter what because if I get crappy service and stiff someone a tip,, it just reinforces to the waiter... "oh well, he was a prick anyways and wouldn't have tipped regardless"

Anyways, I find it more satisfying to give the person 20% and tell them straight up to their face "you gave really shitty service, what was the problem?" If they're nice about it, I'll be nice back. If they give me a lot of attitude, I'll complain to management.

The biggest reason I tip the same everytime though, is because it really aggravates me people who go into a restaraunt just looking for a reason to stiff the waiter or give someone a crap tip. It's just takes the self-serving element and subjectivity out of the equation. Also, when you do let them know you got poor service, they are much more receptive to your criticism and are usually pretty cool about it and apologize or offer a free desert or something.

The other rule of thumb I try to go by is that if I can't afford the 20% tip, I don't go to that restaraunt that particular day. period.

One thing about bars though, if you're ordering and paying for 1 drink at a time, generally $1 per drink, or a couple of bucks for 4 or 5. If you're running a tab, it's customary to just tip the straight 15 or 20% of the total tab.

[JosephNF]

No offense Acupuncture. I'm referring to Australian taxies. Cubase is Aussie, and in Australia we don't tip. However in Sydney since it's an international hub, the practice is growing because of this outside influence. Unlike the US our bar thenders etc are paid higher wages. There is no need to tip in Australia. However on the odd occasion if someone does an exceptional job then I guess there is nothing wrong.

As I said, I tipped in the US! Only sometimes I wasn't sure where I should or should not.

I see, I apologize then since I read incorrectly.

[delnisfernan]

As already explained they only make about $2 an hour directly from the restaurant and absolutely rely on tips. It would be absolutely rediculous to expect one to live off of that wage especially if hours are limited. Is this really all that difficult for some of you to wrap your head around?

There are plenty of cases where a "better job" isn't an option for a multitude of reasons and if people didn't tip and waiters only made $2 an hour, you wouldn't have anyone to give you your food.

That Burger King analogy was quite weak by the way, they get paid at least minumum wage, unlike full service waiters, who also have much more demanding jobs so don't bother with that arguement.

Let's say Red Lobster, The Keg, Boston Pizza, Wildraft, or Rude native. All restaurants, I'm sure they all get paid minimum wage. I was seeing a girl who worked at the Keg, she definitely made minimum wage without tips. Why tip them, according to your argument vs my Burger King argument?

What is the reason a person can't find a minimum wage job? There's always a job that pays minimum wage. So why complain when not getting tipped? Even if you don't get tipped by a few customers, you would still get way above minimum wage.

I just need a good reason why people can't find better jobs, that's all. (I need multitude of reasons, because like I said, the only reason I hear is, I get more money getting tips)
Why is it so hard to work at Mcds, Burger King, Harveys, Blockbuster etc, part time?? It pays above minimum wage, doesn't it?

Again, not trying to be a jerk.

[Injurnerona]

What's this moving to the US? I thought you were heading to Japan. [shocked]

As for your GF. You seem like a funny couple since you seem to have some complete opposite views. You're a pretty outgoing bloke, she seems more quiet. Just an observation.

haha... going OT, but I will be quick...

We have decided to put Japan on hold for the moment. I have access to more opportunities in the US and so does she. It also seems more practical for my current development in the industry, as a cultural barrier would be a bit of a problem for the moment. Still have plans to go to Japan though, but for now I am going to try the US where there is an abundance of opportunity. Either way I don't want to stick around here with our crappy industry.

[Hamucevasiop]

Let's say Red Lobster, The Keg, Boston Pizza, Wildraft, or Rude native. All restaurants, I'm sure they all get paid minimum wage. I was seeing a girl who worked at the Keg, she definitely made minimum wage without tips. Why tip them, according to your argument vs my Burger King argument?

What is the reason a person can't find a minimum wage job? There's always a job that pays minimum wage. So why complain when not getting tipped? Even if you don't get tipped by a few customers, you would still get way above minimum wage.

I just need a good reason why people can't find better jobs, that's all. (I need multitude of reasons, because like I said, the only reason I hear is, I get more money getting tips)
Why is it so hard to work at Mcds, Burger King, Harveys, Blockbuster etc, part time?? It pays above minimum wage, doesn't it?

Again, not trying to be a jerk.

I don't know about any of the restaurants you listed other than Red Lobster or what the pay is like in Canada but in the US which, we are talking about, people that serve at almost any full service restaurant, Red Lobster included, make roughly $2 an hour. Sure you could work at a fast food restaurant but people choose to take on jobs at higher end establishments because the potential for income can be significantly greater albeit not as consistent. For example working at a local steakhouse in GA I could make over $200 in a single night depending on how many tables I turned. Some nights I would only walk with less than $30.

I don't think you are being a jerk, I just don't think you quite understand.

[Teeppoodiug]

I don't know about any of the restaurants you listed other than Red Lobster or what the pay is like in Canada but in the US which, we are talking about, people that serve at almost any full service restaurant, Red Lobster included, make roughly $2 an hour. Sure you could work at a fast food restaurant but people choose to take on jobs at higher end establishments because the potential for income can be significantly greater albeit not as consistent. For example working at a local steakhouse in GA I could make over $200 in a single night depending on how many tables I turned. Some nights I would only walk with less than $30.

I don't think you are being a jerk, I just don't think you quite understand.

Then that is a risk you take. This thread has shown that not everyone will tip or tip appropriately. You have to accept that going into this type of job. Until tipping is a law, there will be people who don't. It's unreasonable to get angry at someone who doesn't tip or tip well as they really don't have too.

That said, I think its stupid that this is allowed to happen. Like I said, I consider tips a bonus to my server for a job well done. They shouldn't have to rely on people like me to make decent money. Minimum wage should be paid.

My 2 cents I guess.

[Hamucevasiop]

Then that is a risk you take. This thread has shown that not everyone will tip or tip appropriately. You have to accept that going into this type of job. Until tipping is a law, there will be people who don't. It's unreasonable to get angry at someone who doesn't tip or tip well as they really don't have too.

That said, I think its stupid that this is allowed to happen. Like I said, I consider tips a bonus to my server for a job well done. They shouldn't have to rely on people like me to make decent money. Minimum wage should be paid.

My 2 cents I guess.

Hahaha, OK right, which is pretty much what has been said multiple times in this thread, just reworded.

Although it IS reasonable for a server to be frustrated with a party if they bust their butt to serve them and they stiff them on the tip. Plain and simple, it is deeply customary here in the US to tip servers for good service. Now I don't find it reasonable for the server to chase anyone into a parking lot, or directly comment to a customer about their tip in any way but I know I have been shafted plenty of times and it frustrated me but I never acted out.

[Teeppoodiug]

Although it IS reasonable for a server to be frustrated with a party if they bust their butt to serve them and they stiff them on the tip. Plain and simple, it is deeply customary here in the US to tip servers for good service.

Oh for sure. No doubt you would get frustrated, but to chase after a customer and demand a tip? I guess if, like you said, you really rely on those tips you might get right pissed and snap.

On a related labour note, do you (or anyone else) know why they allow the whole $2/hr thing? Seems like it defeats the whole minimum wage kinda thing you know?

edit - Caught your edit! At least we agree on that

[delnisfernan]

mutelight: I don't understand. That's exactly the point. When I ask, "why should I tip?" I get exactly the answer you described. You make more money off tips and if people don't tip you lose in the end.
Then I hear bartenders/waiters I work with complain about bad tippers. I ask, why not go somewhere else where it pays minimum wage so you don't have to rely on tips. I get the answer: "I get more money." Vicious circle no? I need a more concrete reason because we are "expected" to tip these days..

By the way the wages of the restaurants I listed are a bit under minimum but not as low as the wages you mention.

Here's where I come from and I think zortoflaven and a few others had a point.

At 16, I worked as a gas attendant, for two years, part time during school and full time in the summer. I've worked three winters where I would freeze all the time and we had a tiny heater. In the spring/summer we had no roof above our little booth, so when it rains..well... it rains.. anyway. I used to get tipped about 6$ on average per shift, during christmas anywhere from 20-40$ per shift ( thats tip ).

Am I different for not expecting tips? I never expected, although it was nice to get it because I tried to work hard. So, I'll go to a restaurant, where it's nice and warm inside and have someone bring me food ask me how I'm doing etc.. I get all of that, and I do tip, don't get me wrong. Now, when I don't tip enough in bars, I heard my friend get a complaint about me because I didn't tip enough. Then, my thinking about the bartender is.. sorry.. I don't see you breaking your back, or freezing your buttcheeks, or getting rained on in here.. why should I tip you? He just poured me a drink.. where's the hard work?

I'll get called a cheap-ass..

I agree, tips are a 'bonus' and I understand that for hard work, you get tipped. You know what I would tip great for.. foot rubs while I'm eating my dinner j/k

I read in this thread that some waiters chase after the customers.. it makes me cringe..

Edit: I just read both of your posts.. I agree with you both. I think I just hate when someone is expecting a tip.. for the least amount of work possible.. then complain about it.. aka lazy bums.. phew..

[Hamucevasiop]

At 16, I worked as a gas attendant, for two years, part time during school and full time in the summer. I've worked three winters where I would freeze all the time and we had a tiny heater. In the spring/summer we had no roof above our little booth, so when it rains..well... it rains.. anyway. I used to get tipped about 6$ on average per shift, during christmas anywhere from 20-40$ per shift ( thats tip ).

Am I different for not expecting tips? I never expected, although it was nice to get it because I tried to work hard.

Yeah, I remember you telling that story earlier but at 16 did you have put a roof over your own head, fully support yourself or others? Also, did you make ~$2 and hour? That is my point.

[VeniHemealm]

I don't think you are being a jerk, I just don't think you quite understand.

Well I do understand, and I do tip, but there is a legitimate cultural question as to why people feel they prefer a system of voluntary wage subsidy (via tipping) rather than paying the full cost of the meal in the first place, where the waiter/waitress makes a wage they can live from.

So rather than getting a $20 bill, you'd get a $24 bill straight up. When you think about it, psychologically, it's quite powerful having a system that is complicit in saying, you will only get a wage you can live from, if I feel like giving it to you.

...just a thought... but it's funny that it only exists for SOME types of workers.

[delnisfernan]

Yeah, I remember you telling that story earlier but at 16 did you have put a roof over your own head, fully support yourself or others? Also, did you make ~$2 and hour? That is my point.

Every cent counted in my family.

My family knew no english, jobs were hard to come by. My dad has schizophrenia/depression from the war and hasn't been able to work in years. Still doesn't and disability doesn't pay much for a guy who's worked for a year in total in Canada. Mom worked full time and my brother and I bought worked part time while raising a little sister. Every job I found, it always paid better, although physically exhausting than the previous.. I've worked full time and part time (at the same time) to provide and help the family. Until now, where I'm in my own field.

Don't get me wrong, I respect people that work hard as heck and I know there's so many out there that have done way harder stuff than I have, I was just saying, if things are really tough, there's always something better out there.. but for a price ( health ). So the way I saw it or still see it in my eyes.. bartending is easier than what I had to do but again, some could argue there's much harder things to do as well..

[Suvuseh]

Well I do understand, and I do tip, but there is a legitimate cultural question as to why people feel they prefer a system of voluntary wage subsidy (via tipping) rather than paying the full cost of the meal in the first place, where the waiter/waitress makes a wage they can live from.

So rather than getting a $20 bill, you'd get a $24 bill straight up. When you think about it, psychologically, it's quite powerful having a system that is complicit in saying, you will only get a wage you can live from, if I feel like giving it to you.

...just a thought... but it's funny that it only exists for SOME types of workers.

it would cost more than just 20% more added to the bill though... and waiters would likely end up making less, while less servers would be kept on slower shifts, meaning that everyones service is fuct when that suprise prayer group of 20 shows up.

I really don't care what they do, but if i were a waiter, i would want the current system as it is, as i would make more, and pay less in taxes. The system is set up now where a waiter can make a ton of money, and i know some that are still doin it making in the 80k+ range. It all comes down to how hard they want to work. Changing the system would create a glass ceiling that does not exist, as i doubt too many establishments would pay their waitstaff ~$150 an hr., which at the right restuarant, is easily atainable in tips if you know ur shite.

As it is now, waiters are only taxed for ~8% of their total tab out. So say, at the end of the night, they have a total of $1000 in receipts. If they made a solid 22% for the night, but are only paying taxes on $80...that 140 extra saves the waiter and the restuarant considerably on taxes.

Not to mention the complete headache of deciding the payscale, as the idea that it would just be gratuity added at the end, is undoable imo. But alas, i no longer wait tables, and the economy will have to considerably tank for me to worry about ever going back, but i don't see it changing anytime soon.


Edit: Zoo, i am not for certain, but hairdressers, taxi drivers et al,afaik all make minimum or above, waitstaff/bussboys/bartenders only get the under minimum hourly wage.

[Creelaleps]

Edit: Zoo, i am not for certain, but hairdressers, taxi drivers et al,afaik all make minimum or above, waitstaff/bussboys/bartenders only get the under minimum hourly wage.

Are you certain about the hairdressers? Or maybe it varies by state labor law....my one ex worked for several hair salons and was never paid tip wage, and it was usually better than minimum wage at that. Then again I always hated having to tip some girl to give me a high and tight that barely takes 10 minutes of her time, on top of the $15 for the haircut (but then again, there ARE times even I'm cheap lol)

[pipojambo]

When I go to restaurants with friends, I usually throw in 10-15% of the bill. If the service is even better and if they're really friendly and make the dining experience just that more pleasant, I always throw in a bit more probably bumping it up to about 20-25%

Personally, I don't think I'm being cheap. I know exactly how hard some waiters/waitresses work. The Chinese restaurant business is even worse, as the tip doesn't go to that single waiter/waitress that served you. Generally, all the tip made from the tables from one night is accumilated into a jar and then shared out with all the other workers (whom also collected tips from tables they've served)

I usually tip my hairdresser whatever, since I do go to him frequently everytime I require a haircut, if he charges me like £16 for a haircut and I give him a £20 note, I usually just tell him to keep the change.