[Grennios]

statistical facts = racist

The theory that blacks are more likely to go to prison is not based on racism it's based on the fact that there ARE MORE BLACKS IN PRISON! argueing against facts makes you look like an illogical moron

Read your source of information again:
The second graph shows, for the latest year, the likelihood of being in prison under sentence across different ethnic groups. These likelihoods are expressed in terms of the number of offenders aged 20 or younger sentenced who are UK nationals and were in prison in June 2005 per 1,000 population aged 16 to 20 of the relevant ethnic group.

The data source is the Ministry of Justice Offender Management Caseload Statistics. The data relates to England and Wales.

The figures are for UK nationals only and therefore exclude foreign nationals, with it being assumed that the prison proportion who are foreign nationals is similar for the 16 to 20 age group as for the all-age proportions.

The population estimates are perforce from the 2001 Census, with those of mixed race being included in the relevant ethnic minority group (e.g. 'White and Asian' being included in 'Asian').

Overall adequacy of the indicator: medium. The data is dependent upon administrative practices of the police and the judicial system. Note some "facts" - the statistics don't include Scotland nor Northern Ireland; the statistics don't include anybody over the age of 20; the statistics don't include foreign national figures; the figures are calcuated estimates of population figures; the figures don't fully separate mixed race entries; the overall level of worth of the figures is deemed, by the people who generated them, to be medium.

Now since you've reduced this discussion to just using insults instead offering evidence and comments, I'll simply leave it to you to explain how you can still claim that the graph you used proves your view that ""blacks" seem to be more lazyier, anti logical, anti social, confrontational than there white counterparts" or, perhaps more straightforward, how the graph proves that "there ARE MORE BLACKS IN PRISON."

[NodePark]

Read your source of information again:

Note some "facts" - the statistics don't include Scotland nor Northern Ireland; the statistics don't include anybody over the age of 20; the statistics don't include foreign national figures; the figures are calcuated estimates of population figures; the figures don't fully separate mixed race entries; the overall level of worth of the figures is deemed, by the people who generated them, to be medium.

Now since you've reduced this discussion to just using insults instead offering evidence and comments, I'll simply leave it to you to explain how you can still claim that the graph you used proves your view that ""blacks" seem to be more lazyier, anti logical, anti social, confrontational than there white counterparts" or, perhaps more straightforward, how the graph proves that "there ARE MORE BLACKS IN PRISON."

So are you telling me theres more white people than black people in prison in the uk ?

[Overlord]

So are you telling me theres more white people than black people in prison in the uk ?

Are you reading the same thing as the rest of us?

I suggest stopping posting.

[NodePark]

Are you reading the same thing as the rest of us?

I suggest stopping posting.

Can you answer the question.

[giftplas]

the answer to the question is irrelvent unless you do a full audit of the crimes commited.

If you had 100 prison slots, 80 of them being black, 10 asian and 10 white, None of the black prisons commited murder, or rape or whatever, just petty drug crimes but both the asian and whites did.

Would you really single out the blacks because of sheer number or the actual people KILLING PEOPLE.

Imo this thread needs to be ******* locked.

[Grennios]

So are you telling me theres more white people than black people in prison in the uk ?

No, but only because I don't know if there are. However, and this is the important bit that you seem to be missing, the graph and website link you gave does not state that there are more black people in prison than white people - what poverty.org has done is taken data from various source and done a statistical analysis on them, suggesting that black people in England and Wales, between the ages of 16 to 20, are more likely to be in prison than white or Asian people. And that's all it does - it is a huge leap to go from that to claiming that it categorically proves that there are more black people in prison than white people. That may well be the case but the graph does not prove it.

[Soassesaisp]

Interesting read from the home office, bit dated now at 2002 I guess.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/s95race02.pdf

Prehaps more use than the poverty website

[Kristoferson]

That may well be the case but the graph does not prove it.

Even if it did, it's no excuse for some of the remarks here. So what if there are lots of black people in prison? There are probably just as many fine, upstanding black citizens working a 9-5 job and doing well for themselves! It's just a skin colour and not proof of a criminal, regardless of what any chart says.

BTW, I have a black friend, so it's OK. [rofl][rofl][rofl]

[NodePark]

the answer to the question is irrelvent unless you do a full audit of the crimes commited.

If you had 100 prison slots, 80 of them being black, 10 asian and 10 white, None of the black prisons commited murder, or rape or whatever, just petty drug crimes but both the asian and whites did.

Would you really single out the blacks because of sheer number or the actual people KILLING PEOPLE.

Imo this thread needs to be ******* locked.

its not irrelevant its a indicator that there more prone to criminality in one form or another.

No.

Thanks.

[giftplas]

its not irrelevant its a indicator that there more prone to criminality in one form or another.

And how is measuring the amout of people in buildings an accurate way of prooving it?

oh wait....it isnt.

[NodePark]

And how is measuring the amout of people in buildings an accurate way of prooving it?

oh wait....it isnt.

A building? you mean a Prison, there is a differance you know.

a prison is correctional institution where persons are confined while on trial or for punishment.

Hope thats cleared it up for you.

[giftplas]

A building? you mean a Prison, there is a differance you know.

a prison is correctional institution where persons are confined while on trial or for punishment.

Hope thats cleared it up for you.

Yes, however are you suggesting that EVERYONE who has commited a crime is inside said buildings?

and last time a checked a Prison was a building so no, i dont really see the difference between a building, and what a prison is.

[Grennios]

thegecko - what Desolator is alluding to is that not everyone who has committed or is committing a crime(s) is currently in prison. Therefore the possibility exists for it to be the case that more white people commit crimes than black people, but more of the latter end up in prison (there's a good chance that this is the case anyway, because there are more white people in the UK than black people); if so then the reasons for this are another point of debate.

[b7RKli4l]

thegecko - what Desolator is alluding to is that not everyone who has committed or is committing a crime(s) is currently in prison. Therefore the possibility exists for it to be the case that more white people commit crimes than black people, but more of the latter end up in prison (there's a good chance that this is the case anyway, because there are more white people in the UK than black people); if so then the reasons for this are another point of debate.

Exactly the point !
I am seriously thinking black people getting more arrested for silly things rather then white people, seen it..

been there.. no need to fight me [surrender]

[giftplas]

Exactly the point I was getting to. Thank you for atleast seeing where i was going with that.

I think, and lets just pretend for a minute that those figures are exact indication of color difference in prision, in reality all it prooves is how far behind the human race really is to racial tension and acceptance. It prooves that racism still exists in the justice system whether its down to the policeman on the beat, or in court.

I honestly would lay money on a white man and a black man getting arested for posession of drugs and the white man getting communicty service and a fine and the black man getting a few month in jail.

Frankly put, there is too much to anaylize to even get close to making assumptions of wherether skin color has anything to do with actually commiting crime.

[NodePark]

Exactly the point I was getting to. Thank you for atleast seeing where i was going with that.

I think, and lets just pretend for a minute that those figures are exact indication of color difference in prision, in reality all it prooves is how far behind the human race really is to racial tension and acceptance. It prooves that racism still exists in the justice system whether its down to the policeman on the beat, or in court.

I honestly would lay money on a white man and a black man getting arested for posession of drugs and the white man getting communicty service and a fine and the black man getting a few month in jail.

Frankly put, there is too much to anaylize to even get close to making assumptions of wherether skin color has anything to do with actually commiting crime.

People goto prison after a trial by jury. So your reason for more black people in prison is that whitey is racist, not that black has broken the law to the exstent he has to be put in prison.

Thats the problem with people with your point of view, theres an exscuse for everything if it regards a black person. theres ALWAYS someone else at fault.

[NodePark]

thegecko - what Desolator is alluding to is that not everyone who has committed or is committing a crime(s) is currently in prison. Therefore the possibility exists for it to be the case that more white people commit crimes than black people, but more of the latter end up in prison (there's a good chance that this is the case anyway, because there are more white people in the UK than black people); if so then the reasons for this are another point of debate.

Sorry im not guessing and taking into account possibilities, im just going from who actually IS in prison.

[giftplas]

People goto prison after a trial by jury. So your reason for more black people in prison is that whitey is racist, not that black has broken the law to the exstent he has to be put in prison.

Thats the problem with people with your point of view, theres an exscuse for everything if it regards a black person. theres ALWAYS someone else at fault.

No, you see you missed my point again. I'm not saying black people are getting put away for their crimes is a wrong thing, but I do personally feel that the color of skin can sometimes NOT ALWAYS! influence decisions made. Meaning that something a white man does and gets away with with a slap on the wrist will result in a black man going away for it.

My point is that there is far too much to take into consideration before you start saying things like

"im just going from who actually IS in prison." Sorry, but you dont actually know the hard facts thats been proven by many posts in this thread. I am not saying that Black people are not to blame, i'm not saying there is an excuse for their crimes. However what I am saying, is that this type of debate requires alot more facts and figures, and alot more consideration into things such the actual crimes commited and the white culture being still more backward and racist than most like to admit than actually just saying "black people steal more stuffz" and so on.

[Grennios]

Sorry im not guessing and taking into account possibilities, im just going from who actually IS in prison.

So do you have the complete figures for the whole of the UK, covering all age groups, gender and race for those people in prison? If you're only willing to entertain any kind of a discussion based on pure figures, then it's up to you to provide them.

[NodePark]

No, you see you missed my point again. I'm not saying black people are getting put away for their crimes is a wrong thing, but I do personally feel that the color of skin can sometimes NOT ALWAYS! influence decisions made. Meaning that something a white man does and gets away with with a slap on the wrist will result in a black man going away for it.

My point is that there is far too much to take into consideration because you start saying things like



Sorry, but you dont actually know the hard facts thats been proven by many posts in this thread. I am not saying that Black people are not to blame, i'm not saying there is an excuse for their crimes. However what I am saying, is that this type of debate requires alot more facts and figures, and alot more consideration into things such the actual crimes commited and the white culture being still more backward and racist than most like to admit than actually just saying "black people steal more stuffz" and so on.

Black people are the most racist people ive ever met in my entire life. To say white people are backward is insane, there people on both sides who are backward, but again it kind aleans more to one side than the other,

here in the UK we actually have a positive descrimination act [thumbdown] that makes a employer chose the black person instead of the white person if they are both expearianced and academically the same, i mean WTF .

Anyway you only have to look at the state of africa after we gave it them back to understand what im talking about.

EDIT - And imagine if i called black people backwards liek you just did white people.... it would be outrage.