[Lenny Hensley]

http://content.comcast.monster.com/j...c_n=comcast007

From the perspective of an annual survey commissioned by staffing firm Manpower, these dynamics yield a number of occupations for which openings are hard to fill. Among white-collar jobs, the following positions make Manpower’s 10 Hardest Jobs to Fill list: engineers, technicians, sales reps, accountants and IT staff. And on the blue-collar side, the list includes machinists and machine operators, skilled tradespeople, mechanics, laborers and production operators. I think it's somewhat interesting that they point out how hard it is to fill IT related jobs, but on the other hand, as is the case in my area, maybe it's because a lot of entry-level IT jobs pay piss-poor wages, yet want 2 or 4 year degrees. Who wants to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a good degree, but start in a job that pays only $8/hour? It's difficult enough for me to support myself in a $10/hour job. I live in an apartment, but I paid my car off before moving out of my parents house, and I don't even have any student loans to pay off.

Granted, I'm sure there are plenty of IT type jobs that pay decently to start off in if it's a big company and such, but I'm just basing my opinion off of what I see in the local classifieds & job sites such as Monster, etc. Maybe this just isn't a good area for that kind of thing.

This is more of a rant than anything I suppose, but please, discuss.

[Intockatt]

That is interesting about the IT jobs. I'm in the IT field, and at least it's good to know jobs are available.

But right now I'm pretty happy with my current job. Starting pay for me was $17/hour plus I get a car bonus so gas is pretty much free for me.

[Cgnebksb]

most places I know as long as you have some IT experience, will pay in the mid to upper teens hourly just for lowest tier support at a company. If you have some certs and experience I would expect someone to be making in the mid to upper 20's, at that point youd be a tier 2 or maybe system/network admin or something like that.

[Discus]

most places I know as long as you have some IT experience, will pay in the mid to upper teens hourly just for lowest tier support at a company. If you have some certs and experience I would expect someone to be making in the mid to upper 20's, at that point youd be a tier 2 or maybe system/network admin or something like that.

Of course it depends on where you live too. I'm in Arkansas and it seems to average starting pay for even an experienced IT person is 15-17 hourly. I've been at my job for almost 5 years now and am just up to 13.50 This is a small point of sales business and the owner is a super tightwad. Thankfully, i just scored a job with a much bigger company staring at 16/hr. Benefits are great and i get a company vehicle, blackberry phone, and a laptop. No boss or office to check in with. I just go to a designated job, fix the prob, document, and then go home. [yes]

[Ndptbudd]

Do they not pay salaries anymore in I.T.?

[Cgnebksb]

Do they not pay salaries anymore in I.T.?

when you get to high positions like system admin, network admin, senior this, senior that, manager of [fill the blank] yeah, but for the first could of steps up the scale no.

[Lenny Hensley]

Do they not pay salaries anymore in I.T.?

That may just depend on the company.

I very nearly landed an entry-level IT support job that would've been salary & it started out @ 35k/year at one of the local Uni's, and this was with no schooling but plenty of personal experience (was even tested on my knowledge and did very well.) However, my father works there in a different department, and the guy who did some of my interview & was in charge of the hiring decision apparently didn't see eye to eye about some things, but that's another discussion for another time lol.

[Ndptbudd]

So why would I.T. be the top 10 hardest jobs to fill? Not enough applicants? Too much demand? Poor applicants?

I have over 5+ years of I.T. experience and every time I think of looking for a new job, they want EVERYTHING. Windows + Linux+ Mac+FreeBSD+Oracle+MS SQL+MySQL+PostGreSQL+Cisco + C/C+/C++/C#/Perl/Python/JAVA/.NET/ASP/VB+SCSI/SAS/NAS/SAN+Clustering + HTML/CSS/XHTML/AJAX/PHP/RUBY+ 45 years of experience with a Ph.D. in Computer Science and be a certified Medical Doctor with a practicing law degree. I.T. never ends and it keeps going.

[chootsonege]

So why would I.T. be the top 10 hardest jobs to fill? Not enough applicants? Too much demand? Poor applicants?

I have over 5+ years of I.T. experience and every time I think of looking for a new job, they want EVERYTHING. Windows + Linux+Mac+FreeBSD+Oracle+MS SQL+MySQL+ PostGreSQL+ Cisco+C/C+/C++/C#/Perl/Python/JAVA/.NET/ASP/VB+SCSI/SAS/NAS/SAN+Clustering+ HTML/CSS/XHTML/AJAX/PHP/RUBY+ 45 years of experience with a Ph.D. in Computer Science and be a certified Medical Doctor with a practicing law degree. I.T. never ends and it keeps going.

They might request the earth but are usually willing to except far less as long as you demonstrate aptitude and have a little experience.

I work in an Office of 17 Advanced IT Proffesionals and there's not a computer degree between us, even at a certificate level there's a distnct lack of 'proof of knowledge'.

1 of the guys was plucked recetly from a Customer services roll paying roughly 12.5K {UK} a year, now with a couple of months training he's our program tester and has doubled his income or $50K.

[ugosanchezo]

Yup, same for a lot of places/prefessions - often they are asking for the world and paying peanuts.
The really stupid thing is frequently they want qualifications that have little or no relevance to the actual job. Sometimes they are looking for people with extreme levels of experience - I remember a Forestry company complaining that they couldn't get trimmers (they guys and gals who lop off extra branches as the trees are growing) - they were looking for people with at least FIVE years experience - they weren't interested in training people.

When I was unemployed, I missed out on a lot of jobs as I was "overqualified" - true, but if I wasn't interested in the position, I wouldn't have bloody applied, would I? Doh!

[chootsonege]

I'm currenly browsing the Job ads as a source of amusement and came across this gem:-

Key Skills (Developer, programmer, software engineer, Support, Software, Java, C#, C++, Unix, VMS)

Excellent opportunity to enter the world of Banking Technology working for a rapidly growing player. They current seek people of graduate calibre with some commercial experience in a software development to join a team of software management technicians.

The right candidate will have experience of four of the following:
Delivery of software, Development language unimportant but Java would be good, Unix or VMS, Building GUI Installation kits, Understanding of software engineering principles, quick learn, stress resiliant, administration skills and PC literate. The successful candidate would be required to work a rotating shift pattern from 09:00 to 17:30, 13:30 to 22:00 the next week. 27-32K London!

Must have four of the following LMFAO!!!!!!!
Part of my job is supporting VMS on an Alpha mainframe and you can get £300 a day in London for that alone. Seriously, how did they write that ad and not curl up into balls of laughter?

I like the way they add PC literate to the end; Yes, I program Java and DCL script, I often roll out In house GUI's but I can't get the hang of this 'Word' application.

Spanners...

[erelvenewmeva]

So why would I.T. be the top 10 hardest jobs to fill? Not enough applicants? Too much demand? Poor applicants?

or the wage is too low

[bypeTeenehalT]

It's not just the IT industry, though. A lot of CEO's have been out there recently in the news crying big crocodile tears about the inability to find "qualified people"

A deeper look at what they really often mean is that there are a lack of people to take the job at subsistence wages that don't keep up with inflation...with forced overtime, reduced medical benefits, concentration camp work environment...and little to no chance of advancement out of that situation if you stay, since all the better positions are being outsourced to other country's........

But they want top people.........

[Intockatt]

Do they not pay salaries anymore in I.T.?

Actually, I am on salary. Started off at 35k/year. I just said $17/hour because 35k is pretty close to $17 an hour. Based on a 40 hour workweek.

And as someone pointed out. Region is a big factor. The northern US states have a higher cost of living, so salaries up north would be a bit more then down in the south, where I live.

And like another person. I mostly sit on my arse browsing the net or just slacking off till I receive a technical problem. I fix it, then go back to what I was doing.

[yharmon6614]

Actually, I am on salary. Started off at 35k/year. I just said $17/hour because 35k is pretty close to $17 an hour. Based on a 40 hour workweek.

And as someone pointed out. Region is a big factor. The northern US states have a higher cost of living, so salaries up north would be a bit more then down in the south, where I live.

And like another person. I mostly sit on my arse browsing the net or just slacking off till I receive a technical problem. I fix it, then go back to what I was doing.

LOL, that's why I love IT . I think the hardest part about filling a job is just finding a qualified person. Certs and degrees are one thing, but are never proof that an employee is competent in the field. One question I always asked when hiring people in IT was, "If you don't know the answer to something, what can you do to find out." Some people would say they would call a friend or ask a coworker. That's all well and good, but I was really looking for steps on how to find the answer yourself.

One thing about IT, unless you are in a specialized field, is there is way too much to know. You can't know it all. A person in IT really needs to know how to find the answers. That skill in itself is almost more important than having actual technical knowledge IMO.

I'm a network admin for a County, making $40k/year salary plus awesome benefits. I have a 4 year degree in Computer Networking and 7+ years experience in IT. When I applied for this job, there were 23 applicants. 19 didn't even meet the job requirements so were thrown out. Only 4 applicants received interviews. There's never any shortage of people who feel they are IT qualified, but when it comes down to it, they are just someone who can load Windows XP on a PC. There's way more to IT than that. I'd say 5% of my job consists of "reloading" PCs.

[Reftsheette]

Depends if they mean hardest to fill from THEIR point of view.

If they are searching for IT staff for a position with one of their clients, you can bet that their client will also be working with several other agencies - and for most IT jobs you can pretty much guarentee a full compliment of candidates from all agencies, meaning that Manpowers chance of filling the job is much lower than say a job where there are less skilled people available.

[thargeagsaf]

It's not just the IT industry, though. A lot of CEO's have been out there recently in the news crying big crocodile tears about the inability to find "qualified people"

A deeper look at what they really often mean is that there are a lack of people to take the job at subsistence wages that don't keep up with inflation...with forced overtime, reduced medical benefits, concentration camp work environment...and little to no chance of advancement out of that situation if you stay, since all the better positions are being outsourced to other country's........

But they want top people.........

Oh, add no vacation time to that as well.

[valensds]

Most employers list too strict requirements. They might offer $12/hr but they're asking for like 6 years experience, a 4 year degree, etc. Then don't bother to really say what the job is all about either. They use these blanket explanations that sound a lot worse than the job is. My employer is notorious for that.

They listed a job as technical support with all these PC knowledge requirements. Turns out its just plain old customer service answering a phone and taking payments. They lose so many good candidates by not giving you any idea what you're really applying for. I'm sure there's tons of IT jobs I would have been perfect for. Give me a couple weeks to get situated and learn the ropes and I'm good to go. But they always list them all weird. Plus nothing in my area. I want to move to Florida, but I don't want to move across the country with no idea what my job is really going to be.

Half the time the jobs don't really need someone who meets those requirements. Hell, most techies could spend some time on google, pick up a few books, and do just fine at most jobs (unless its maybe something like programming/database). General admin is fairly easy and once you start picking it up you'll catch on fast. A short adjustment period and most of us geeks are fine. You learn it in college, you get no hands on, and you forget all the crap you learned and end up googling stuff anyway. I've seen it quite a few times with fresh grads.

Use it or lose it. I'd be lucky to remember how to configure a Cisco 3600. Use a T-Berd? Forget it, haven't touched one in years. Wish I had time to renew my CCNA tho. Living in BFE really hurts for a geek. No damned options for a tech job, or the ones that do have openings are pretty serious about the 10 year experience requirements.

One thing about IT, unless you are in a specialized field, is there is way too much to know. You can't know it all. A person in IT really needs to know how to find the answers. That skill in itself is almost more important than having actual technical knowledge IMO.

Google! It can solve anything. Better than the crappy documentation that comes with the products.

I just did my first attempt at muenchian grouping in xsl the other day. Decided it was time to start learning XML. Who the hell would want to do this crap by hand... my god. No wonder they can't find qualified people for those wages. You want someone to do XML/XSL/CSS to make a decent report.. you better pay them well. Or give them good tools. I don't get anything nice like XMLSpy or whatever. I had to code my own little app to generate my XML document and SQL queries to get the data, and then generate an XSL sheet based around certain tables. The challenge can be fun... but I think I'm coming to the realization that the only fun thing is the challenge... the task itself sucks. :P On the bright side I get to learn tons of new things, but I don't get as in depth as I would want. I guess a basic working knowledge in a lot of areas is at least a good starting point. A year ago I wouldn't know what to do with XML, now I can at least look at it without going "what the hell is that".

[KlaraNovikoffaZ]

These starting hourly wages are absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe that a person with a college education would start off making $13-15 hourly.
I mean..I'm going through college now working at a grocery store, and I make $11 hourly for stocking produce.
I had always assumed that the starting wages were at least $20 for IT...
[surrender]

[ArrichMer]

Ha, I can add to the employers looking for the world. One of the things my employer looks for now are programmers for positions that don't require anything close to coding

...and at wages that start at $12 an hour. For the first year and a half, I made more money working part time at sears then I made here.