[CHEAPPoem]

Redoing my CV as wanting a new job, wondering if anyone could help me out and review it. Preferably someone in Human Resources and has experience in CV writing/reading. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[unfolaReemoma]

I work in recruitment. Fire it across to me if you like, and I'll take a look.

[CHEAPPoem]

ok, sent over. Thankyou. It's been years since i last did one, that's all. The only thing that isn't complete is the second reference.

[CIAFreeAgent]

[offtopic] This is what i love about this forum, everyone is prepared to help[thumbup]

[unfolaReemoma]

ok, sent over. Thankyou. It's been years since i last did one, that's all. The only thing that isn't complete is the second reference.

Suggestions emailed back. For those that might be interested - here is my short guide to structing a CV. I read literally hundreds of CVs a month, and am responsible for screening and selecting candidates for positions, so trust me when I say I've seen ALL sorts of CV layouts - both good and bad!

Bear in mind also that my guide is mainly UK / Europe focused.

-----------------------

1) Name and Contact details. In the UK now you are not required to provide your age (the law changed last year) – its up to you as to if you include it or not. I say do, as if you don’t, it can make a potential employer suspicious. Put your email address immediately under your phone numbers.

2) Put the skills sections before your employment history, as the first thing that an employer wants to see is a summary of your skills. Don’t just include IT skills, put “soft-skills” there also (good communicator, sales experience etc. Don’t just put sales – eloborate a bit – what kind of sales – customer facing, telephone?). Split the skills part up into two if necessary (technical and non technical skills). For the technical skills indicate your proficency level with each one (experienced / expert etc), and if possible list the number of years you have been working with a particular software package / programming language etc). This section should be bullet points only – don’t go into to much depth.


3) Education. List relevant education, dates and grades achieved. For GCSEs etc, you don't have to list each one, just putting “10 GCSEs grade C or higher” – that will do.


4) Employment History. In this section structure it as follows (example):


Oct 2001 – Nov 2003 Company blah blah

Job Title

- Key responsibilites / software used etc (bullet points). This part should link back to your skills section – so that after listing your skills, a potential employer can then see where you used them.

- Then short (3-4 lines) text giving a bit more detail about your work. Include positive aspects such as awards won, important work projects completed etc.

Do this for each job. Remember to list months as well as years for the dates. There should be no gaps in your employment history dates. If there are then explain them. Potential employers hate to see gaps on CVs – it makes us think “what is that person trying to hide?”

4) Hobbies / achievements. Remember to keep this part short, and relevant. It should give a potential employer an initial insight into what you are like as a person, - it should not scream “weirdo” !

5) References. Just give names and contact details (checking first that your referees haven given the OK for you to include their details on your CVs). The alternative is to simply put “References available on request”.

Don’t worry about the length of a CV. It’s a myth that it must not be longer than 2 pages. 2 pages is a good length to aim for, but if you need more space then do it.

The important thing once you are finished is read it through objectively and think "does this document represent me accurately?". Have a friend read it through and see if they agree that it represents you well / correctly.

[incizarry]

Don’t worry about the length of a CV. It’s a myth that it must not be longer than 2 pages. 2 pages is a good length to aim for, but if you need more space then do it.

I wouldn't necessarily say that it is a myth, I have dealt with a lot of senior managers/directors and HR folk and if you haven't made your impact in the first couple of pages they won't bother looking at page 3.

In fact, I've even spoken to managers who won't look at a CV longer than 2 pages, it goes straight in the bin.

[NumStulpata]

Some great tips there Chris, though it is europe biased as you mentioned. That said I think with a little modification the same rules apply universally.

Employers want something that represents you.

I remember writing my "resume" when living in America for my first proper job over there. I had no idea how to write an "American resume", so I cobbled together everything I could think of that might be relevant. (probably made myself look a little better than I should have), and then consulted my ex's parents for more tips. I ended up with the literary equivalent of a spaghetti dinner.

That said, I think the employer had already made up his mind about me, and therefore thankfully decided not to employ me based on my written skills alone.

He was Irish, so at least he understood the meaning of "GCSE"

[unfolaReemoma]

I wouldn't necessarily say that it is a myth, I have dealt with a lot of senior managers/directors and HR folk and if you haven't made your impact in the first couple of pages they won't bother looking at page 3.

In fact, I've even spoken to managers who won't look at a CV longer than 2 pages, it goes straight in the bin.

Then that manager is missing out on some quality candidates.

As an example - if you've been an engineer for 15-25 years, working at a number of companies (especially if you've been a contractor) - then there is NO WAY you will get your CV down to two pages - at least not without cutting out a LOT of relevant information.

Yes, you should make sure that your CV has the necessary impact in the first couple of pages, to make the reviewer WANT to read further, but to say that a CV should not be longer than two pages, or to bin it within even reading it is complete garbage.

[Freeptube]

Then that manager is missing out on some quality candidates.

As an example - if you've been an engineer for 15-25 years, working at a number of companies (especially if you've been a contractor) - then there is NO WAY you will get your CV down to two pages - at least not without cutting out a LOT of relevant information.

Yes, you should make sure that your CV has the necessary impact in the first couple of pages, to make the reviewer WANT to read further, but to say that a CV should not be longer than two pages, or to bin it within even reading it is complete garbage.

Thats a good point, but a person who reads those kinds of CV's knows that. A teen applying to Wal-Mart with a 4 page CV will probably be overlooked by most. An engineer with 25 years won't be applying to Wal-Mart (hopefully!)

[CHEAPPoem]

How come it's better not to have colour in the CV, i would have thought that would be something that would make it standout a lot more?

[NumStulpata]

colour could be awkward as it might come across as pretentious. It's the quality of the words, not how pretty they are decorated.

Saying that I sometimes highlight important titles with a Grey background to add some structure without going over the top.

[incizarry]

Then that manager is missing out on some quality candidates.

As an example - if you've been an engineer for 15-25 years, working at a number of companies (especially if you've been a contractor) - then there is NO WAY you will get your CV down to two pages - at least not without cutting out a LOT of relevant information.

Yes, you should make sure that your CV has the necessary impact in the first couple of pages, to make the reviewer WANT to read further, but to say that a CV should not be longer than two pages, or to bin it within even reading it is complete garbage.

How can he be missing quality candidates?

If you have 15-25 years experience as an engineer that is on page1, it gets you noticed straight away. You don't have to put down everything that you have done in the last 25 years, what you were doing 10 years ago probably isn't relevant except as continuity of employment if your skills section is complete.

If a CV doesn't get someones attention immediately then it already says something about the person writing the CV. If the information that a manager needs to make a decision about a candidate is buried on page 5, it tells you that they cannot focus on the job, cannot present information in a relevant and precise fashion and have a tendency to waffle.

If a candidate says that they have been a wireline operator with slickline experience working for Schlumberger for 15 years then you don't need a book for a CV.

I'm glad that you have time to sift through the shite that turns up but most businesses don't unless they are employment agencies.

[Wrasialat]

Then that manager is missing out on some quality candidates.

As an example - if you've been an engineer for 15-25 years, working at a number of companies (especially if you've been a contractor) - then there is NO WAY you will get your CV down to two pages - at least not without cutting out a LOT of relevant information.

Yes, you should make sure that your CV has the necessary impact in the first couple of pages, to make the reviewer WANT to read further, but to say that a CV should not be longer than two pages, or to bin it within even reading it is complete garbage.

hey there! sorry to be a pain but could you look at mine?ive actually done 1 cv that ive used and its been somewhat alright but thought its a bit... kinda of rubbish and been advised by a friend to change it to a template he has given me but i dont really agree that its better, or is it?

plus my education/jobs is random and sporadic i need some help there, its a mess really! ive been doing this for weeks but getting nowhere and also getting a tad depressed as well! any help is great!

let me know, i will owe you one!

[unfolaReemoma]

How can he be missing quality candidates?

If you have 15-25 years experience as an engineer that is on page1, it gets you noticed straight away. You don't have to put down everything that you have done in the last 25 years, what you were doing 10 years ago probably isn't relevant except as continuity of employment if your skills section is complete.

I'm glad that you have time to sift through the shite that turns up but most businesses don't unless they are employment agencies.

Read what I wrote. If you have 15-20 years experience then a SUMMARY of your skills should be clearly visible in the first few pages, ensuring that the reviewer wants to keep reading. You'll then give DETAIL under each of your employment history entries.

Thats a good point, but a person who reads those kinds of CV's knows that. A teen applying to Wal-Mart with a 4 page CV will probably be overlooked by most. An engineer with 25 years won't be applying to Wal-Mart (hopefully!)

Exactly, - it all depends on the person. If you are young, or have not done much in your working career, then your CV does not need to be long. If however you have done more jobs, and have relevant information to include, then your CV will be longer.

hey there! sorry to be a pain but could you look at mine?ive actually done 1 cv that ive used and its been somewhat alright but thought its a bit... kinda of rubbish and been advised by a friend to change it to a template he has given me but i dont really agree that its better, or is it?

No problem, email it across.

[payowlirriply]

...
Bear in mind also that my guide is mainly UK / Europe focused.
...

Nice little guide Chris, and nice timing as I'll be updating my CV soon!

Two little questions hopefully you can answer...

1) Prolly trivial, contact email address - should I use the one with my current employer or personal one. Bare in mind that my personal one are are all huyster@...; do the reviewer care about the casualness?

2) I been with the same company since leaving uni, almost 12 years now! The company's gone through several name changes due to acquisitions and I been through lots of different roles.
How should this be broken down in the employment history?
By company name or by job role?
I'd personally think job role but that could look odd as it'll span company names.
Do I even need to list all the name changes or just stick down the last employer's name?

[unfolaReemoma]

Nice little guide Chris, and nice timing as I'll be updating my CV soon!

Two little questions hopefully you can answer...

1) Prolly trivial, contact email address - should I use the one with my current employer or personal one. Bare in mind that my personal one are are all huyster@...; do the reviewer care about the casualness?

2) I been with the same company since leaving uni, almost 12 years now! The company's gone through several name changes due to acquisitions and I been through lots of different roles.
How should this be broken down in the employment history?
By company name or by job role?
I'd personally think job role but that could look odd as it'll span company names.
Do I even need to list all the name changes or just stick down the last employer's name?

1) I would suggest not using your work email address, as potential employers are often wary about communicating on the email address where someone is currently working. Don't worry too much about your personal email address looking "casual", unless its really crazy, in which case just make a new hotmail or gmail one that is more generic.

2) I'd list everything by job function, using just the most recent company name. What you can do after writing the most recent company name is to put "previously blah blah ltd" in brackets after the name - showing what the company used to be called, if that makes things clearer. (it all depends on the context really) Its important to list by job roles, so you can show how long you've been in each role, and what the reasons were for your promotions etc.

[payowlirriply]

1) I would suggest...

2) I'd list everything ...

Nice; cheers, dude!

[bestworkother]

I was advised by an agency not to include my DOB and was advised to remove the dates from my education so that the employer could not work out my age. Seemed a bit OTT on the age discrimination act, but hey...I got the job! [thumbup]

It was the first agency, for a long time looking for another job, which actually gave feedback about my CV and gave me some tips. Usually you email it over and they send it out. No wonder I didnt get any replies. It was done at uni 7 years ago and just edited to make it up to date. Once edited after feedback, it looked a lot more professional.

[unfolaReemoma]

I was advised by an agency not to include my DOB and was advised to remove the dates from my education so that the employer could not work out my age. Seemed a bit OTT on the age discrimination act, but hey...I got the job! [thumbup]

It was the first agency, for a long time looking for another job, which actually gave feedback about my CV and gave me some tips. Usually you email it over and they send it out. No wonder I didnt get any replies. It was done at uni 7 years ago and just edited to make it up to date. Once edited after feedback, it looked a lot more professional.

Some new regulations came in last year in the UK, stating that you cannot be forced to include your age on your CV (to help guard against age discrimination). Some agencies have gotten very scared with this whole age discrimination legislation, and decided to remove things like education dates etc, for fear of being sued.

Frankly I think its pathetic. In order for a CV to be meaningful, potential employers need to see how long you have studied for, and how long you have worked. Even without entering study dates its not hard to work out roughly how old someone is. End of the day, if an employer does not want to hire someone due to their age, then they'll only come up with some other reason (wrong specific combination of skills, does not identify with the company etc)....

Study dates are important, as you need to see if someone has completed a study, or dropped out.

[bestworkother]

I have no problems including any age/dates, but thought i would take the advice anyway. Does seem a bit silly and the agency did seem to be worrying about the age discrimination thing.

Some good advice Chris, FMs new recruitment agency is under way by the looks of it!! [thumbup]