[bestformaldress23]

• Receive your Certificate of Naturalization.


JM

[RSAccountssy]

They get that well before.

[HarryMet]

Kansas

[bWn4h8QD]

I (and probably everybody else in the US) need to show proof of citizenship for employment - there's a long list of acceptable documents, but the only part of the list I remember is that your passport is proof of citizenship, or else your driver's license plus your social security card is proof of citizenship.

So what's the problem with all these voter ID checks, then?

Cost. My passport costs about $120 every ten years, my driver's license costs about $60 every eight years. For some people this isn't a pittance.

[space-on-s]

For some people this isn't a pittance. True, when you are voting 10, 11 times, the costs scale.

[affewheillMapew]

Only if you're moving to God's Country, like the free states of Virginia and Utah

**** that. Everytime I buy a gun in VA I'm "randomly chosen" for an extended background check. I got dinged for it on a gorram .22LR rifle today. Maybe I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow, maybe it'll be next week.

[QysnZWB4]

So what's the problem with all these voter ID checks, then?

Voter fraud is a largely imaginary phenomena in modern US voting. There are people who for whatever the reason don't have photo ID, and it's difficult to get ahold of because the state services suck(like in WV where the DMVs are only open one day a week and few and far between). You have to present your voter registration card anyway, and a line is struck off on the list of voters in the district the district polling place has. This alone greatly minimizes fraud, since several people can't just hit the same district again and again.


That said, I wouldn't be opposed to, say, putting your thumbprint next to your ballot(or on the voter scanner machine). This would create a pretty much ironclad defense against voter fraud and wouldn't require ID other than your voter registration card. People wouldn't go for it thought because OMFG BIG BROTHER MARK OF THE BEAST.

[amagmasia]

There are districts in Philadelphia with routinely greater than 100% turnout.

Cite please, because even the GOP government of Pennsylvania thinks that voter fraud risk is so low that it would not be materially affected by a voter ID law.


In Virginia quite recently a DC-based nonprofit tried to register a bunch of pets, children, dead people, and felons. It was in a copy of the Washington Post sitting in the Fed's lunch room. You mean the one that the VA SBE gave a pass on anyway, since there would be a bit of a sticking point when invalid(or missing) SSNs tried to get registered to vote?

You do realize that this means the system is already working well to prevent voter fraud, right? And that there's a difference between attempted voter fraud and actual?

[Sleflanna]

Cite please, because even the GOP government of Pennsylvania thinks that voter fraud risk is so low that it would not be materially affected by a voter ID law.

Okay.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...op-complaints/

[Gvadelunar]

You didn't already have a 10/22, Felch?

[Battwenue]

Weird, my brother was able to get a gun with no trouble whatsoever.

[proslaviy]

Not that brother. My twin brother. And neither of them, do, really...

[MicoSiru]

Nope. I had a 22 pistol.

Yeah? I'm actually interested in getting the Ruger SR22. .22LR ammo is so goddamn cheap right now.

[ArraryTauTDew]

I love how Lonestar asked for a cite and I provided it and he's said nothing since.

That's because I'm waiting for you to read your own goddamn article.

I'll help you out: The GOP complaints couldn't even come up with a specific example, at and least some of the "high voting percentage turnout" districts that the city commissioners have studied have been traced right back to machine error. Given the complete cluster electronic voting has been(printed receipts? Poppycock!) this is unsurprising. And now, in August, the PA GOP has actually admitted that if voter fraud does exist on a wide scale in PA, voter ID wouldn't solve it.

[Peapeuddedbaw]

The problem comes in when:

You don't have a driver's license (for whatever reason)
You don't have a birth certificate (for whatever reason)
You don't have a social security card (for whatever reason)

Could be lost/stolen/etc....

But then suddenly proving your identity becomes a time consuming and possible costly affair. It becomes much harder if you can't trace backwards (I think my mom had to help my brother get his birth certificate when he needed one again).

Yes, for the person with a car and who holds a job it is easy.... (and if they get stolen, still easy)

note you can't legally work without a social security card

JM

How the **** can someone live without a single bloody document? Why don't the police deport them as illegal immigrants?

[russianstallian]

You'd need ID to claim your welfare?

[AlistDakisa]

Proof beyond reasonable doubt is required. But to answer the first question, you really can't. That's why the whole voter ID thing disenfranchising people is so ludicrous. You need an ID to get a job, to drive a car, and to fly on airplanes. You also need one to buy alcohol, tobacco, guns, certain types of knives (in many states), and ammunition. In some states even buying spray paint or any kind of aerosol requires an ID. I guess if you're riding buses everywhere for your transportation and living on welfare you might not need one.

I never need an ID to buy alcohol or tobacco. You don't need one to drive a car, poor people don't fly a whole lot. I've used my ID only a couple of times in the last few months, every time was at the pharmacy.

You need ID to buy Sudafed.

ACK!

[suingincentix]

You don't need a drivers license to drive a car.

I've driven many cars without one.

[q9h9pPne]

Proof beyond reasonable doubt is required. But to answer the first question, you really can't. That's why the whole voter ID thing disenfranchising people is so ludicrous. You need an ID to get a job, to drive a car, and to fly on airplanes. You also need one to buy alcohol, tobacco, guns, certain types of knives (in many states), and ammunition. In some states even buying spray paint or any kind of aerosol requires an ID. I guess if you're riding buses everywhere for your transportation and living on welfare you might not need one.

You need ID to buy ****ing cough medicine.

EDIT: Oh, tubes hit that one.

[Yyaqyped]

If someone stopped me on the street right now and demanded that I prove that I'm an American citizen, I couldn't do it -- and neither could most Americans. The only document that can reliably be used to prove American citizenship is a passport; it's the only document that contains BOTH a confirmation of citizenship AND a photo ID. Citizenship is not required to obtain a driver's license -- the only form of ID most Americans carry, myself included. Beyond that, there's very little. Citizenship can be inferred from a birth certificate, but it would take a second ID to show the birth certificate with the person showing it (and even that wouldn't be sufficient for someone with a common name). A passport is really the only such document -- and fewer that 20% of Americans have passports.