[Janarealiti]

Which is why they *did* suggest that priests should be executed like they were by Luther and his acolytes?

If the rape children, sure, execute them.
Don't like it? Don't rape boys.

[jackie Obrian]

The fact that you are calling for special rules for special people. .

No. I'm asking for the same single system of criminal justice be applied to all, consistently and fairly. And that means Catholic priests accused of child abuse get tried in criminal courts like absolutely everyone else. And, if found guilty, go to prison like everyone else.

You're going to lose this- but how badly do you want to lose?

[actrisski]

So one of the merits of your proposed alternative is... the criminal suffers less for their crime...? It's almost like Catholicism doesn't teach that suffering can be beneficial.

[Forexampleee]

It's almost like Catholicism doesn't teach that suffering can be beneficial.

Why would you single out pedophile priests as the sole target of prison reform?

"Won't somebody please think of the pedophile priests??? They're suffering too much!"
"What about the suffering of the other 99.9% of criminals?"
"Meh, whatever."

[effenseshoora]

Not sure which laws you mean ... China has laws that anyone who is a bishop of the Catholic church is to be executed, unless they are a bishop of the 'Chinese' Catholic church, the bishops who are appointed by the government not the pope. This is basically the exact argument that the West faced wrt investiture. The entire Catholic church in China is underground.

I don't see how it makes sense to subject prelates in China to the legal system there, when the legal system will execute them for exercising their office as a bishop.

This is part of my concern. England has a terrible history with regards to respecting religious freedom, so I also don't see why the Catholic priests should be tried there by the local laws.

The vatican is free to make up his own rules within its state territory. You might want to reread the concordat. On some issues, yes, but not others. This has nothing to do with Vatican City vs Italy, but everything to do with priests and bishops abroad serving their parishes and episcopies. One of the rights accorded to priests within the Catholic church is the right to an ecclesiastical trial by his peers, but this is voluntary. The Church will not force anyone to accept this, but anyone who chooses not to do this, will be left to deal with the secular authorities. So any priest who is getting tried by the secular authorities has already chosen not to seek the ecclesiastical trial.

It also shouldn´t be a problem for a worldly jury to impose a sentence in which the convicted person first serves a prison sentence and then is extradited to vatican state territory. International law is pretty much against someone convicted for a crime in one country, getting convicted after serving his time by another country. This is why they have extradition - to decide where the crime will be tried. The real question is, who has jurisdiction? England or the Vatican? For the laymen, England, I would argue for the priests, the Vatican. Now, if, as in this case here, the issue is Church officials lying about the abuse that did occur - they've abused the same privilege that protected them, and therefore they shouldn't be protected.

Jesus talks to his disciples about paying taxes as ordinary citizens should do, And where does Jesus say that his disciples ought to be tried by local authorities? Jesus was executed unjustly by the local authorities. Paul appealed all the way up to Rome as his right as a Roman citizen, to be tried by their laws, and not the local laws.

[brulpcoersero]

Why would you single out pedophile priests as the sole target of prison reform? And exactly where have I argued that this extraterritoriality should apply only to this segment? I suspect that very soon, we shall see 'hate crimes' being used to try to arrest priests that don't knuckle down under the oppression of the state, as has already happened in Canada with Boissoin.

[Mimsykzr]

It's almost like Catholicism doesn't teach that suffering can be beneficial.

Obviously not for themselves or the pope wouldn't live in a palace.

[Mynameishappy]

I see.

So the fact that the are unmarried and celibate has nothing to do with priest abuse. Cool.

A celibacy requirement could make normal people who are interested in sex with adults less likely to become priests.

[malishka1025]

Hey, here's a fun question.

If people voluntarily give money to the pope, wouldn't the fact that he has a palace demonstrate that Catholics in general are willing to suffer?

They could simply be stupid. That would also explain why they are Catholics.

[jojocomok]

They could simply be stupid. That would also explain why they are Catholics. Would you equate stupidity with voluntarily tithing to the pope to the point where you have to forgo worldly pleasures?

[royarnekara]

That's not what you said earlier. So which is it? Do priests rape boys because they can't marry the woman of their dreams, or is it because there is a distinct lack of altar girls?

I never said, earlier, that priests raped boys because they couldn't marry an adult woman. It is, however, possible that pedophiles make an unusually large share of the candidates for the priesthood because normal people have reservations about taking a job that has a celibacy requirement. Please stop lying.

[feAilei1]

Would you equate stupidity with voluntarily tithing to the pope to the point where you have to forgo worldly pleasures?

Yes. Giving money to people who are a lot richer than you is stupid.

[euylvaygdq]

Yes. Giving money to people who are a lot richer than you is stupid. Which explains THIS Obama ad.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Oba...6/22/id/443226

Clearly Obama thinks his supporters are stupid.

Hey, I don't see the Pope telling me to forgo wedding gifts.

[venediene]

And this matters WHY? The issue is that they do rape boys and girls. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Presumably addressing the actual problem would involve figuring out why it's occuring. If there's something fundamentally wrong with these priests, neither removing the celibacy requirement nor increasing the number of altar girls will fix the actual problem.

[dHXaE2h9]

If people are willing to donate their hard earned money so that the Pope can live in a palace and travel around the world, is this wrong?

No... just stupid.

[Tveabuti]

Presumably addressing the actual problem would involve figuring out why it's occuring. If there's something fundamentally wrong with these priests, neither removing the celibacy requirement nor increasing the number of altar girls will fix the actual problem.

If you remove the celibacy requirement, then in the future you might have more recruits to the priesthood who don't have something fundamentally wrong with them.

[Njxatsbf]

You're asking that Catholic priests be tried under English law.

No I'm not. Try again.