[9uWzBx4l]

We had this experiment already, back in the 30s. Steinback, among others, wrote extensively on it.

[fount_pirat]

Well, seeing as I'm stealing a job from an American, that's not necessarily so, rah.

You're assuming that there are more people than jobs, and I'm not convinced that this is the case. The problem isn't so much that legals are unwilling to work, but the fact that the system discourages employers from hiring legals in the first place.

Even if they paid them exactly the same, someone who is legal is going to cost more to hire.

The best way to fix this is to get rid of the extra taxes and reporting duties imposed upon employers. This way legal employees are not more expensive to hire than illegal ones.

[ExpodoDop]

If it's possible, I think in the long-term, US agriculture would shift to being more capital intensive. With the higher wages expected of American-born fruit pickers, capital will be comparably cheaper and change the production functions in favor of increase capital usage.

Exactly. US agriculture would start looking more like Australian agriculture where the high cost of labor means they automate EVERYTHING possible and even avoid certain crops which have to be hand picked (like strawberries) simply because it would cost to much. Could it be done? Certainly as Australia has already done it though the US has a huge pool of low skill workers who are willing to work for peanuts just to the south of us so businesses would prefer to go with the cheap and less capital intense route of hiring them rather than buying $1 million new pieces of equipment and having to replant orchards/fields so the equipment can be used effectively.

[PareKeect]

That illegals take jobs that citizens wouldn't is total bullshit.

[lalpphilalk]

That illegals take jobs that citizens wouldn't is total bullshit.

It's not that they work jobs that Americans wouldn't want to do; they work jobs that Americans wouldn't want to do for what the Mexicans get paid to do it for.

At the minimum, you'd have to pay Americans minimum wage and their take home pay will be less due to tax withholding (plus business cost will be higher due to payroll tax). An illegal will be willing to do the work for less than minimum wage and get paid under the table so no withholding or payroll tax.

[theonsushv]

Then you must be pretty happy with Obama, if this is your issue.

[hubua990]

Um...yes, that's pretty obvious.

[CGH1KZzy]

Then you must be pretty happy with Obama, if this is your issue.

Oh, mice nuts.

[masterboyz]

That is what is known as "the right question".

I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

[Wr8dIAUk]

I see
So that's another criminal offense.

[pIp83Uns]

I see
So that's another criminal offense.

Yes. Those evil criminals are paying taxes.

[GECEDEANY]

They'd get at least minimum wage. Those that hire illegals need to be locked up. I sympathize more with illegals than those that hire them. You want to get started on social security running out? Illegal hiring plays a part in it.

Sadly, this is not true. Most documented foreign workers, by in-laws employ some, work under local labour laws. Most illegals get paid whatever their employers want and work ridiculous hour and are constantly under the threat of being turned in. Some are beaten and starved. In Canada recently a prominent construction contractor was arrested and several illegals from Hungary were liberated from slave like conditions. They were brought over several years ago, had their passports taken and, when not working, were locked in a basement. Construction trades, farms, and private households frequently abuse illegals, and do not meet labour laws.

I would be extremely surprised if Social Security, or any other government programs receive remuneration from such employers. I think if you were to advertise "Slaves wanted" outside of specialized adult listings, you wouldn't receive a lot of American applicants.

[car.insur]

That is what is known as "the right question".

I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

The why is simple. Unions make higher wages by restricting the number of workers entering a given field, nativist political groups as well as racist political groups generally want to keep foreigners out, while even simple supply and demand means non-unionized work forces don't want cheap & easily exploitable workers lower wages for legal workers. Companies, naturally, want the lowest paid work force possible and if they can avoid paying things like taxes or worker's comp or even unemployment insurance then they will do so.

Our current political dysfunction is that politicians set EXTREMELY difficult legal immigration rules in order to make nativists and unionists and simple rednecks happy (no more "they took our jobs!") but they make sure there is little to no actual enforcement so that companies can still easily get their easily exploitable work force without fear of any meaningful fines or enforcement.

[eljugadordepoquer]

Most states have sales taxes, but there are very few sales taxes at the national level.

[catermos]

Ever hear of school taxes? Another instance of citizens getting screwed as they pay the way for illegals.

[texbrease]

Don't you have sales taxes in the USA, meaning that all illegals pay taxes whenever they buy something at the supermarket to eat?

That's true, although food is often exempt from sales tax.

[Nupbeaupeteew]

Ever hear of school taxes? Another instance of citizens getting screwed as they pay the way for illegals.

Most of those are paid for by property taxes so if they rent a house they're paying it.

[Fgunehjf]

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

Coming from Europe where we ignored the impact of immigration on society for way too long, I disagree.

Economically speaking it makes sense, but social impacts of mooving large numbers of people into your country would be devastating.

[fetesiceWaist]

Says the sociopath...

[Deengealf]

That is what is known as "the right question".

I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

Making sense.