[bWn4h8QD]

I agree with him.

JM

[flowersnewaho]

I have to wonder whether Newt really means it when he says he wants to "engage young people in real life."

If you become an adult at 13 (or 15), whatever, what about age of consent laws and the like? How about alcohol, a legal drug (as opposed to those illegal drugs he seems so worried about)? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd hazard a guess that Newt is just fine with keeping restrictions on all those things. But he sure wants those kids to get to work!

The idea about paying kids for school acheivement is interesting... and at the same time, strikes me as an example of a nanny-state program I thought Newt would dislike. He doesn't make it 100% clear, but it appears that he supports the idea of the state paying highschool students for getting good grades...

The line about "enforced boredom" is a good one. I can relate to that one. I nodded. It's true. As is the bit about 13 year olds learning from 15 year olds... though I'm not sure that's really a post-19th century phenomenon.

-Arrian

[M1iFiNmC]

Newt is just being his usual bad-ass self. He thinks children should start working at 13, but you can bet your ass he's not up for letting them smoke and drink and drive at 13.

[viagra_generic]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I agree with him.

JM i hate to agree with Newt, but I do.

[Nautilus]

and I actually support paying students for good grades. Right now the teachers unions really have a stranglehold on the education system. They want more money, but aren't putting out a better product. We also need better teachers. Sadly teachers aren't regarded as a noble profession anymore and just something for women who can't work a real job.

[soitlyobserty]

Originally posted by Sandman
I don't think it'll work. If you want to get rid of rebellious teenagers wasting their time, you should start with the culture, rather than the education system. Remove the expectation that teenagers ought to be mouthy idiots rather than upstanding citizens, and you might have a chance. and how would you change the culture? You can't do it by force. Well you could... but that would imply a fascist type goverment.

[UTHZzJ6f]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
And getting up on TV and lecturing kids to shape up or ship out isn't the way to change culture. You can't punish, demand, lecture, or cajole people to be responsible. Giving people responsibility is the only thing to make one responsible.

[RokeIdeadioke]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I agree with him.

JM Something tells me he just wants to try 16 year olds as adults without making them full legal adults.

[Sadsidioribre]

You want to pay school age to go to high school and try, but you also want to give them the entitlements of being mature.
I don't know, but that seems jacked up to me.

[CamVideoQl]

No, we don't. That's why youth is recruited to do crimes. They aren't prosecuted as adults, generally.

[carreraboyracer]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Yea, and he didn't come out and say he wanted to do that. Just an example of interesting programs along these lines. I believe NYC is doing this now too. I bet he'd take a wait & see approach to see if any positive results come from the programs. Fair enough. I think it's an interesting idea too.

I like the idea about giving kids money to go off to college/vocational school early too. Good stuff.

The rest... the vague bits about making 13 year olds into adults... that's what I'm wary of. He talks about giving them responsibilities. Ok, I get that he wants to put 'em to work. Fine. What else? Age of majority? Age of consent? Drinking age? Oh, and how about those terrible illegal drugs, Newt? While we're on the subject of personal responsibility and all...

-Arrian

[chuecfafresslds]

Newt Gingrich is a bigoted, rabid right-wing monster.

[LoisCampon]

When did Dis come back?

[SergeyLisin]

A lot of this boils down to parenting. I'm surprised Mr. Gingrich appears to be signing on to parenting by the state, but maybe he figures that we're already so far down that road he's got no choice. Obviously there is a deficit of good parenting. Social engineering, though, is a difficult and potentially dangerous thing (as I'd expect a conservative to believe).

-Arrian

[offemyJuccete]

Originally posted by Arrian
A lot of this boils down to parenting. I'm surprised Mr. Gingrich appears to be signing on to parenting by the state, but maybe he figures that we're already so far down that road he's got no choice. Obviously there is a deficit of good parenting. Social engineering, though, is a difficult and potentially dangerous thing (as I'd expect a conservative to believe).

-Arrian Public schools ARE social engineering. A drinking age IS social engineering. Unless you think conservatives would be for eliminating all such laws, I think it is fair to say that social engineering is already taking place across the board and is universally supported by both sides.

Newt sees that our current model of social engineering isn't working and is suggesting a better way of going about it.

[Uvgsgssu]

I do have a concern that if you have more programs where kids are paid to do well, or guarenteed scholarships if they maintain specific grade point averages, that extra pressure might be put on the teacher to give out higher grades. It's bad enough when kids whine that if they don't get a certain grade from a teacher that their college carreer will be suposably ruined. Imagine now if it has concrete direct monetary value. That increases the risk of predatory practices by certain teachers or threats by certain students. As the direct value of grades increase the more dangerous it might become for both teachers and students. Right now a lot of the more dangerous students don't give a rat's ass about there grades. I wouldn't want to be their teacher if a monetary value is attached to them.

[DoctorWeryDolt]

That's a very good point.

I agree, obviously, 100% with Newt's assessment of the problem and his general statements. But you're right, as far as his specific suggestions, they deserve a lot more examination.

[Infellgedq]

Originally posted by Asher


In other words: "I like this article because it supports my opinion. He doesn't justify it well or provide any solutions that are viable or reasonable. " Ozzy would fall in line with a neo-Nazi if such a person was supportive of Ozzy's pet agenda.

[RogHammon]

Originally posted by MrFun


Ozzy would fall in line with a neo-Nazi if such a person was supportive of Ozzy's pet agenda. 1. Newt is hardly a neo-Nazi
2. I never indicated I supported his other policies/positions

[BoomBully]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


1. Newt is hardly a neo-Nazi
2. I never indicated I supported his other policies/positions I wasn't saying Newt Gingrich is a neo-Nazi.

But thanks for playng.