[JohnMaltczevitch]

The centers of Florence and Venice are pretty dreadful during tourist season. They can sort of get nice on some cold rainy evening in February. At least Venice still has elegance. Florence is a shadow of it's self IMHO.

[eI7iqNot]

I am sure high expectations are my own fault but I expected to be blown away by Florence, like I was with Venice, but I was distinctly underwhelmed.

[cwgwowcom]

I think I mentioned that to you before you left. I try to steer people clear of Florence... move on to Siena, it is spectacular... true to our traditions and as a result: exotic. Or try the small towns and cities... still pretty wonderful. Big cities in Italy are not on a European level. IMHO, they are just not.

[Speareerfug]

In spite of what I am saying I loved Italy. I definitely agree that visiting the smaller places is the way to go. That being said I loved Rome.

[michael247]

MTG this is a thread where talking about Italy and it's lifestyle is completely appropriate.

which is what I was participating in. WHETHER OR NOT YOU PERSONALLY LIKE MY CONTRIBUTIONS.

We know you don't like to hear about it so don't read the thread or can the insults.

What insult would that be? Am I not able to make observations about a country now? So now the insult rule applies to whole nations. OK. Next time a conversation comes around to the fat American, the American with no style, the American with inferior food, blah BLAH BLAH...I'll try to keep you in mind and have a good long laugh.

For some of us it would be good to have a discussion without you poking your nose in and berating Fab constantly.

And for others it would be nice to exchange ideas without an over zealous modeator poking his nose in.

I am sure I am not the only one who is completely sick of it.

Well, you ARE the only one who is always compelled to come riding in
without any real need. And I bet there are LOTS of others who are completely sick of THAT.
(Queue the accusations of bias).[/QUOTE]
Ergo, the accusations...which you consistently prove true.

By the way, there is berating, and there is disagreeing. Keep them straight Alonzo.

[gusunsuth]

Now let's see Alonzo tell me to get back on topic, after defending myself from such unnecessary baiting by a moderator.

[Erawise]

But thanks for playing your national anthem again.

Nice try Midtown but statements like this show you don't give a rats ass about discussion. No matter how you try and spin it. Get back to the topic. If you want to discuss this further PM me. Any other posts will be deleted. My post was a warning not an invitation.

[wrefrinny]

"One thing that never struck me on my small sojurn through (touristy) Italy was its opulence."

Yeah... I know. The opulence thing. We really gotta work on that.

Why?

Not everything is an insult Mr Insecure!

[irridgita]

You believe I took it as an insult? (meanwhile: what does Ninja do? Throw an insult. Mr. Insecure?)

It's just an observation that's new to me, that I've never heard... odd, sort of like saying "One thing that never struck me on my small sojurn through New York was its tall buildings."

Or perhaps we have different ideas of what opulence is. I'll bet we do.

[ScosyGissiok]

In spite of what I am saying I loved Italy. I definitely agree that visiting the smaller places is the way to go. That being said I loved Rome.

I thought Rome was OK, but too much Pay to Play.

The Via Sorrentina was AWESOME! (Sorrento was really nice too)

[FliveGell]

You believe I took it as an insult? (meanwhile: what does Ninja do? Throw an insult. Mr. Insecure?)

Don't try to wrap yourself in the blanket of innocence. The way you come off, intensional or not, is as if everyone is attacking your Beloved Italy and its Way Of Life.

Are you saying that sarcasm cannot be met with sarcasm?

It's just an observation that's new to me, that I've never heard... odd, sort of like saying "One thing that never struck me on my small sojourn through New York was its tall buildings." I am confused at that. I do not see the direct relation (not that I am asking). One thing to be surprised about New York would be how open it really is once you get out of the business district, but again, that would have little to do with the discussion anyway.

You know, you are really good at taking things out of context.

Are you a lawyer?

Or perhaps we have different ideas of what opulence is. I'll bet we do. Does opulence mean detail and attention to it to the point of luxury for even common items? It is both a good and bad thing when some simple stuff is hard to find. A cup of Joe? Heaven forbid!

NOT that espresso is a bad thing (or that I like StarPlucks in any way shape or form).

Maybe it was simply from the fact that many Italians do not go out or are not as used to being serviced constantly like Americans, so when they are, there is a higher quality, and cost, to the treat. The lack of Dunkin Donuts may push the price higher in general, but sometimes you can do without a Munchkin......

[Ifroham4]

The way you come off, intensional or not, is as if everyone is attacking your Beloved Italy and its Way Of Life.

And, as I said, everyone can learn a bit from everyone else. If you think Italy is perfect....

^ And my I adress this? In this thread I've said the following:

About our Capital (and basically half of the country):

"short changing/ripping off tourists/bad service = Rome and below"

"and while it's bad for tourists in those areas.... believe me, Italians must be careful as well."

I described Venice and Florence as being dreadful during tourist season.

Actually "only nice during some cold day in February".

I described Florence as being only "a shadow of it's former self".

I agreed with LemSkroob about the strikes and our state workers: "we have a spoiled public service sector that regularly makes the most ridiculous demands."

I agreed about the scandal of the Uffizi museum entrance.

Actually I condem all of our big cities: "Big cities in Italy are not on a European level. IMHO, they are just not."

Yet amazingly I'm accused of Nationalism, I'm "Mr. Insecure" and "think Italy is perfect...."

LOL.

I think a few of you have a reading comprehension problem.

[Angeheade]

I thought Rome was OK, but too much Pay to Play.

The Via Sorrentina was AWESOME! (Sorrento was really nice too)

I really enjoyed Rome, maybe it is my love of history, particularly when it comes to the Roman Empire that swayed me. I was constantly awed by the fact that in was in the place where it all happened. I also love the ruins of empire. It was also my first time in Italy. It may not be as good as a smaller more traditional Italian town but it was still a great intro. It also helps that I am an architect. I was blown away by the ridiculous opulence of St. Peters.

[viepedorlella]

I think a few of you have a reading comprehension problem.

That would imply that people actually read all that you say!

[Arrecteve]

^ Is your life really that bad?

-----

Rome: the center is other-worldly... magnificent... but I can't forgive the graffiti and areas that have lost their style. The horrible perifery. And ugh... that subway. Rome needs to modernize certain things and be concerned with greater up-keep. Under Veltroni it went on the skids with crime and decay... although he did do some great cultural things.

--

I was blown away by the ridiculous opulence of St. Peters.

How interesting....

[rouletteroulette]

Does opulence mean detail and attention to it to the point of luxury for even common items? It is both a good and bad thing when some simple stuff is hard to find. A cup of Joe? Heaven forbid!

NOT that espresso is a bad thing (or that I like StarPlucks in any way shape or form).

Maybe it was simply from the fact that many Italians do not go out or are not as used to being serviced constantly like Americans, so when they are, there is a higher quality, and cost, to the treat. The lack of Dunkin Donuts may push the price higher in general, but sometimes you can do without a Munchkin......

^ Is it me...or can everyone understand this? I can't. Can anyone help me out here?

[bactrimtab]

Nope.

Nobody can help you, you need the secret code to understand my true meaning.

[elalmhicabalp]

Oh well, take back everything I've said about Florence: today's HuffPost notes TripAdvisor's "Top 25 Destinations in the World". They rank Florence 4th in the world (with Italy also at 7th, 8th, and 9th place... Siena, Venice and Rome).

In the meantime, Huff readers can vote for their own top destinations in the world.... results so far?:

#1-Florence, #2-Venice, #4-Rome, #5-Siena.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/TCDestinations-cTop25-g1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_575719.html

[artenotreah]

Interesting list. They always are, real meaningfulness aside. Heidelberg, Germany number 2 in all the world. Who would have known! Never mind Paris, London, New York, Miami, Hong Kong, an exotic Pacific or Caribbean Island...I've been missing out on a mega hotspot all this time.

[Anamehuskeene]

More about the awards:

"The TripAdvisor Travelers’ Choice Destination Awards earn their distinction from those who know them best – real travelers.

TripAdvisor Travelers’ Choice winners are based on the millions of real reviews and opinions from travelers on TripAdvisor.com™ over the past 12 months. The top destination was determined by a combination of TripAdvisor travelers’ favorite places and overall popularity on TripAdvisor.

TripAdvisor, the world’s most popular and largest travel community, has 15+ million registered members, more than 34 million monthly visitors, and 30 million traveler reviews and opinions."

-------
"Paris, London, New York, Miami, Hong Kong, an exotic Pacific or Caribbean Island..." all make the list in various catagories.

New York, Paris and London for instance are ranked in " Trip Advisors Top 10 Culture & Sightseeing Destinations in the World".

( uh.... that's the list where where Florence is ranked #1, Rome #3 and Venice #8..... http://www.tripadvisor.com/TCDestinations-cCulture-g1 )