[mvjvz]

Tokyo is probably the most succesful urban environment in the world(richest, largest, etc), we should learn from some of their strategies, especially in the realm of transit. Although a multiple pole city, NY could learn from Tokyo's use of large urban malls (which do not hinder streetlife) to generate commercial activity and city taxes in manhattan while encouraging commuters to shop in NYC rather in suruban malls even in the harsh winter or summer weather. Large multiple floor uban malls are successful in many areas of Tokyo and do not harm the streetscape if done well... Ropongi hills, etc... NYC already has TWC, but another 2 or 3 malls in Midtown would act as an anchor draw. These malls are just as urban as street shopping if integrated into a vertical mid/high rise development.

ITS time for NYers to get over their unfounded fear of malls in their city -- just b/c they are indoor does not mean manhattan is turning into mainstream surubia.

In regards to transit. NYC needs an integetrated suburban/rapid rail system to connect suburbs to each other and to various poles in manhattan in order to faciliate freedom of movement, high density development and growth poles in suburban areas, as well as to reduce sprawl in the suburbs and congestion/pollution from car commuters.

NYC not having a fast airport express is not a good sign for the future.....

The Yamanote Line in Tokyo is an example of a loop rail system, and a modified version may work in NYC. What is needed is a loop connecting NJ/CT/LI with manhattan and the major airports..

I don't know how it could be done, it won't be done NOW, but plans for the future should be in the works for some type of system like this..

The first step should be to build the NJ tunnel and link it up with G.Central station.

Then a new LI tunnel from Lower Manhattan to allow for JFK access should be implemented.

Lastly, the major component should be a deep commuter rail line connecting Midtown (penn) with lower manhattan....thus allowing someone to reach midtown manhattan from JFK without a transfer, and numerous other possibilities from NJ, CT, etc...

London is implementing this (crossrail) -- NY would be foolish not to plan for higher connectivity if it wishes to remain a global city. It needs its own Crossrail.

[ImapFidaarram]

^^^ sounds good and all but, where is the money going to come from?

[arindiruppyr]

Some day they will realize that in order to keep NYC globally competitive and business friendly, the funds will HAVE to be allocated or otherewise face decline. Investment in decent transit is never wasted in the long run, especially if they expect NYC to maintain its compeitive position in the world. Maybe it will take a decline in NYC's standing to force funding for infrastructure. IMO NYC should think about reducing its reliance on Albany.

[adoreorerie]

The problem is national in scope.

"Keeping New York City globally competitive" is a rather parochial approach in light of present circumstances.

[DghtRdc]

Are you always so pedantic? Nothing good to say at all about my ideas at all? Do you think I'm that idiotic as to not realize that the money will not be available unless the feds have the cash, hence the economy?

Do I need to remind you that NYC is the only world city without a one seat ride to its major intl. airport? Isn't that a little embarassing? Why the heck wasn't it done when the economy was good? The plan needs to be put back on the table NOW for long term consideration...people need to be thinking about getting people to Lower Manhattan and JFK quick and easily

NYC is however the premier city, and to allow it to face decline (allocation of funds to other places) would be a grave mistake -- and transit investment is a good way to improve competitiveness and keep the economy rolling along. However, its seems that Albany doesn't seem that interested in jockeying for NYC in DC.

P.S --> I am attempting to show you that transit is VITAL for the success of NYC in the future in light of recent world wide trends (crossrail, maglev Shanghai, etc) and our standing and respect in the global sphere of commerce depends on how seamless an urban system we run. No business person wishes to spend and hour sitting on the Van Wyck.... No Jersey commuter should need to switch to the subway from the train to get to a major employment pole such as lower manhattan.

Yes, a deep trunk tunel the lenght of manhattan (midtown-downtown) linking up with the major stations would be extremely expensive, but think how much better the subway would function without the overload and think just how many cars would be taken off the roads...

NYC needs a better friend in DC than albany -- that is why I think NYC requires a stronger delegation and a stronger govenor.. Or better yet... blow up the system and get your own representation in washington

[resegooredo]

Are you always so pedantic?

Asking where the money will come from is pedantic?

"...the funds will HAVE to be allocated" isn't an answer at all, so your ideas can't be debated. What am I supposed to say, "No, improved transit is a bad idea?"

P.S --> I am attempting to show you that transit is VITAL for the success of NYC in the future in light of recent world wide trends (crossrail, maglev Shanghai, etc) and our standing and respect in the global sphere of commerce depends on how seamless an urban system we run. We have many threads on the subject. It's not unknown to us.

Do you think I'm that idiotic as to not realize that the money will not be available unless the feds have the cash, hence the economy? Show me where you even implied that in your previous posts. Whether or not you're idiotic is your own business; I respond to what I read.

[irresseni]

What's the deal in Japan with gas prices?

In Europe they are kept artifically high with taxation... monies from this goes to public transportation. I can't imagine how the US is ever going to get great public transportation if gas prices are low.

[chipkluchi]

No Jersey commuter should need to switch to the subway from the train to get to a major employment pole such as lower manhattan.

They can take PATH. B&T needs to consider commuting before they settle on a domicile.

[UriDepkeeks]

Images to support this thread would be much appreciated, otherwise we are just guessing as to what Tokyo's system looks like.

[DoctorTDent]

What you are saying, at least in transit, is a 50/50.

The main reason being that we do not have the "Luxury" of having NYC leveled to the ground 60 years ago. Tokyo had that, and you still see evidence of the loose-knit roudway structure and civil planning that was developed from post war re-settlement.

The boon to this was, of course, that they could also build a better linked mass transit system rebuilding at a time where such a thing was known and accounted for.

I thought that the things tehy had in the Tokyo Transit system were outstanding, such as AC, electronic arrival schedules, and even fuzzy seat covers. But that would NEVER work in our system for one big reason.

We don't give a crap.

On both sides. Our transit workers do not feel they have any reflection of themselves in the station they work in, and I have heard many a raucus conversation in a back room of a station when the platform is still strewn with garbage and filth.

But, to be fair, that garbage could have easily accumulated in a very short period due to the people that ride that have no respect. Almost an attitude of challanging those that work there by throwing garbage to the floor saying "I am important enough that I can throw this on the ground and someone else will pick it up for me.". And then there are just those that are disrespectful slobs.

We would not be able to easily impliment a new transit system without reappropriating many zones for development, both in and out of the city, at great expense. And our lack of respect and appreciation for this system would not help things one bit.


So I agree that it would be nice to impliment similar systems in our own, but I do not think it is possible to any significant extent.....

[sabbixsweraco]

The only way there's going to be a significant improvement in mass transit is a program similar to national highway construction during the last half-century.

Fabrizio mentioned taxes on fuel prices, and therein is the problem. There's been a tax on gas since the Federal Highway Trust Fund was enacted in the 1950s, but it's too low and misdirected. The original 4 cents per gallon tax, not tolls, funded the bulk of the interstate highway system.

In the early 1980s, a Mass Transit Fund was added to the highway fund, and the tax was raised to 9 cents. The split was 8 cents and 1 cent. Guess which fund got the penny. Today, the fuel tax is 18.4 cents, with mass transit getting 2.86 cents. There are plans to increase the tax to 40 cents over 5 years.


Today's depressed economy is the perfect time to initiate infrastructure projects. During prosperous times, nobody wants to discuss such projects, but in addition to the project benefits, they provide jobs and pump the economy.

Much of the infrastructure we take for granted today was built in the 1930s, as the Depression took hold. Hoover Dam was discussed in the 1920s, but work began in 1931. The Golden Gate Bridge was planned for decades, was almost cancelled after the market crash in 1929, but began construction in 1933. The Tennessee Valley Authority was born during the Depression.

There's an opportunity here, but it has to be a coordinated national effort.

[drlifeech]

Maybe some good news in this front...

House Rep Henry Waxman (Dem-CA) has been voted the chairman of the Committee on Energy and Commerce over John Dingell (Dem-MI), who held the post for 28 years. Dingell has close ties to the Big Three automakers, and for years opposed raising fuel efficiency standards.

Waxman is an environmentalist. He introduced the Safe Climate Act early this year, which has not yet made it out of committee.

[Breevereurl]

The pesimism here is odd.... when I see quotes like "we don't give a crap" and "it could never happen here" I feel like you are writing your own destiny thinking this way...rather sad if you ask me. I would advise to never give into lower collective conciousness and keep the ideal in mind -- anything is possible my friend.

I guess Tokyo will forever be more perfect and NYC will never match its levels of efficency and machine-like urban ballet....without improved transit, NY city will choke sooner or later on its own fumes and begin its decline into obscurity, while the various "can do" cities take its place over time..

The map above shows you how Tokyo is a success --> they are the richest metro area in the world and they facilitate movement of people. Chinese cities are following, and may someday reach this level. Even in cityscape and streetscape they are beating NYC in many ways...they don't have the old buildings, but their new is certaintly more modern and beautiful than anything NYC has today, especially in the Ginza and Aoyama district.


NYC has no balls -- a congestion tax was the first test, they failed, simple as that...they are slaves to Albany, and they seem to like that.

With that money, at least the system could have been maintained. The lawmakers need to establish it NOW -- the ridiculous parochial people that stop this stuff need to be disposed of.

[pupyississido]

The pesimism here is odd.... when I see quotes like "we don't give a crap" and "it could never happen here" I feel like you are writing your own destiny thinking this way...rather sad if you ask me.

Have you seen the general attitude of the people riding the subway? In order to get some of the results you are asking for, you need more than just money, you need people who are respectful for teh system and workers that see a reflection of themselves in the job they do.

When I went to Tokyo, I was AMAZED at the diligence that the workers displayed in CLEANING THE RAIN TROUGHS! On their hands and knees with scrubby sponges!!!!

Try to get the Transit Union to do that.

I guess Tokyo will forever be more perfect and NYC will never match its levels of efficency and machine-like urban ballet....without improved transit, NY city will choke sooner or later on its own fumes and begin its decline into obscurity, while the various "can do" cities take its place over time.. Um, saying a pile of poo smells does not mean the entire world will be dominated by it. You are stretching it a bit here.

To tell you the truth, I did not like Tokyo. Very comemrcial, and not quite as dynamic as NYC. their own destruction also relegated them into a smaller and more spread layout than NYC. They have a buisness district with quite a few tall buildings, but that is not the mainstay of the town. Most of it was 3-10 stories (at most) with neon everywhere.

Quite frankly, I liked Kyoto better!

NYC has no balls -- a congestion tax was the first test, they failed, simple as that...they are slaves to Albany, and they seem to like that. they are slaves to the ruling bodies they are governed by? Go fig.

With that money, at least the system could have been maintained. Problem is, we can't just secceed from the state of NY because we feel like it. I know what you are saying, but it just does not work that way. So, we have every right to not like it, and complain, but it is also up to us to do something about it. Call for the things we need, but also vote in the elections that help decide where our state money is going.

But, we also have to keep in mind, letting the entire state of NY slip into decay just because we want things better for ourselves is not exactly fair either.

I would be for helping the state if we could direct the funds towards things like Education and Transportation, but whatever....


Key here is we are not forecasting gloom and doom, but it is easier to design a new system from the ground up than to try and change an existing, and although not the best, functional system.

[Frierlovene]

Yeah, I realize what you are saying -- just hope that more funds will be allocated to projects..