[Unergerah]

Sorry old friend but it is you who is wrong. Greeks need to cut down on siestas and get back to work. Germany are the dominant force in EU whether they pour money into the Greek economy or not and it is the only country at the moment who can afford bailing out a failed state that Greece is.

Germans are hard working, disciplined and well organized nation, but they are not filantrop to the point they shell hundreds of billions if they do not see their political or economic interest.
I agree that Greeks are a light year from German work habits.
We are disagree here about Germans motivation to bail out Greeks. As repayment they will soon ask for Greeks islands, ports, roads, airports and vital infrastructure objects. Mark my words.

[OwdBKKHO]

I can confirm that Greeks are lazy people and awful at managing businesses.

[RarensussyRen]

I can confirm that Greeks are lazy people and awful at managing businesses.

Common knowledge. :P

[ForumMasta]

We are disagree here about Germans motivation to bail out Greeks. As repayment they will soon ask for Greeks islands, ports, roads, airports and vital infrastructure objects. Mark my words.

Bail outing Greece for the past few years was ONLY to repay German banks, who lost so much money invested in Greece. In fact, by bail outing Greece by the whole Euro Zone, the whole Euro Zone was bail outing German banks.

[assohillA]

Taxes are for noobs.

Location: Greece

I rest my case.

[h98hhYxM]

I wonder, would these countries be in the same position if the had kept their previous currencies? Are the problems bigger because of the Euro? How would Greece, Italy and Spain (and Portugal) do if they had their old currencies now?

You've got a good point there, something I had not yet previously considered. They would be suffering from their crushing debt regardless, the effect on the Euro would just be more indirect.

It's hard to say if the problems are bigger because of the shared currency as there are positives and negatives in both cases. It seems that the economic blow has been softened for the problem countries, but it is also hindering their economic recovery. I would venture to guess that all the member countries without crippling debt problems would be slightly-to-much better off if they did not have a shared currency with those that do.

[ANCETPYNCTEXT]

I rest my case.

So easy to troll you are...

[timgreyuvcz]

So easy to troll you are...

It's called sarcasm. Happy you saw through it!
10/10 for the effort though!

[lisualsethelp]

Greeks need to cut down on siestas and get back to work.

Before they ****ed everything up in the last decade, Greece was consistently one of the top countries in regards to annual economic growth since 1950.

[fygESytT]

At least there are countries worse off than us.

Think again.

http://awesome.good.is.s3.amazonaws....hild/flat.html

[AblemTee]

Sorry old friend but it is you who is wrong. Greeks need to cut down on siestas and get back to work. Germany are the dominant force in EU whether they pour money into the Greek economy or not and it is the only country at the moment who can afford bailing out a failed state that Greece is.

A lot of the issue is down to entitlements, particularly in retirement but also public sector workers who are vastly over compensated compared to northern European countries. Take teachers... ending pay in Greece is about the median for Europe (Source) but given Greece's relative economic strength, it's much too high. Same applies to other tax-funded occupations.

France decided to put back the retirement age from 62 to 60 a week ago too, at the cost of billions of Euros over the next 10 years. Some of Europe has had it too good for too long. Then you get countries like Poland, Estonia, Czeck Republic and other living within their means, while 'old' Europe rots.

[no02rSx2]

They lowered retirement!?

I thought a year or two ago they were trying to raise retirement age by a couple yours.


With life expectency only increasing, retirement age should be increasing accordingly as well.
I wonder when Germany and its allies are going to get pissed off for being taken advantage of and start WW3 again.

[geasurpacerma]

They lowered retirement!?

I thought a year or two ago they were trying to raise retirement age by a couple yours.


With life expectency only increasing, retirement age should be increasing accordingly as well.
I wonder when Germany and its allies are going to get pissed off for being taken advantage of and start WW3 again.

Again?

[Coellacag]

Again?

You don't remember they started WW3 last week as well. Bloody trouble makers!

[JakeBarkings]

They lowered retirement!?

I thought a year or two ago they were trying to raise retirement age by a couple yours.


With life expectency only increasing, retirement age should be increasing accordingly as well.
I wonder when Germany and its allies are going to get pissed off for being taken advantage of and start WW3 again.

I guess you meant - start another WW again, or start (for the first time) a WW3.

Well considering they killed over 20 million Russians in the last WW, if they start another WW Russians would finish them off.

[DoctoNilsonDen]

Before they ****ed everything up in the last decade, Greece was consistently one of the top countries in regards to annual economic growth since 1950.

Is that a reliable figure or the 'creative' book-keeping and BS that sucked the rest of Europe into accepting them?

IMO, th eonly real things that Germany, and the others who've given them money for junk bonds, did wrong is that they countinued to lend money when they knew there was no way it could be repaid.
What the greeks had been doing wrong was accept long term extreme tax evasion and fraudulent disability claims, etc, with the collusion of too many local authorities who were, to nbe blunt, incredibly corrupt! If the people had been honest and paying their fair dues, most of this problem would never have occurred.

The main problem is that the European comunity has been trying to act as a union while keeping each country separate and expecting each to pay it's way. As it is, the universal currency stops a country doing what would normally be the first step in a correction which is revaluing it's currency against other countries it's trading with. As it is, it's like having each State in America having a balanced budget without any federal funding.

[Romarionsion]

It's worth pointing out that the only reason the UK, US and Japan are not in Greece's position (or more accurately Spain's position) is that they can print their own money when things get tight - and in fact did.

[Bletlemof]

It's worth pointing out that the only reason the UK, US and Japan are not in Greece's position (or more accurately Spain's position) is that they can print their own money when things get tight - and in fact did.

I understand why you mention UK/US, but Japan? Due to its ageing population? The amount of cash/debt of others it holds is crazy.

[Emedgella]

Is that a reliable figure or the 'creative' book-keeping and BS that sucked the rest of Europe into accepting them?

Didn't I just say "before they ****ed up things a decade ago"

[polleroy]

I understand why you mention UK/US, but Japan? Due to its ageing population? The amount of cash/debt of others it holds is crazy.

You're right, almost all of Japan's debt is to itself, I probably shouldn't have included them.