[avavavava]

At the beginning of my independent career, I will have spent:

- 4 years in college (BA)
- 2 years in medical school
- 5 years in graduate school (PhD)
- 2 more years of medical school (MD)
- 3 years in residency
- 3 years in fellowship
... so 19 years in total... about 80'000+ hours, with probably about 50-55'000 of those hours on medicine alone... and that doesn't include studying after hours.

I will be 37 years old when I START a totally independent job.

It's a long road.

I just know enough at this point, to know where my limits are... and it took me a decade to get there. What I do know is that NOTHING replaces experience. There is a lot of really incorrect information being passed around on the internet (and quite a bit of it has been through these forums), and some of the time, people armed with internet printouts can be a doctor's nightmare. There are lots of individual accounts of the sort "I went to doctors for x years with y, but none of them did anything or understood what it is until I went to z site of the internet... therefore all doctors are stupid, unnecessary, and people should treat themselves".

I really hope, that after 19 years, I'm going to be more useful to my patients than an iPhone app.

[UJRonald]

http://mobihealthnews.com/16401/uk-to-encourage-doctors-to-prescribe-health-apps/

[Rnlvifov]

The internet can never diagnose anyone, but if it leads people to making suggestions to their doctor that leads them to a successful diagnosis then I'm all for that.

A couple of comparisons in other fields....

A computer user can often know if they have a virus or a broken monitor, but they don't actually know how to fix it.

A car driver can tell if their exhaust is broken or a a window won't open, but they don't actually know how to fix it.

Of course there will always be people who think they know better than anyone else, regardless of how trained and experienced they are, but those people have been around forever.

[Ubgvuncd]

I really hope, that after 19 years, I'm going to be more useful to my patients than an iPhone app.

With that mindset, you certainly will be. Few people have a passion for what they do, and I would imagine putting yourself through that much schooling would certainly qualify you as being thoroughly interested in your field. Unfortunately we live in a time rife with paranoia and uncertainty, with most people feeling like everyone is out to get them. If there was ever a time in great need of honest and caring professionals. this would certainly be it.

[Blahhhshsh]

Well gratz!
Im also 37 this year and it was only towards the end of last year i finally started working for myself too, it was also a long road and i am still learning things as well.

Your not alone, theres an old saying amongst Freemasons "Its the hope of reward that sweetens the labour".

[ftqwhbvxlcfop]

Well gratz!
Im also 37 this year and it was only towards the end of last year i finally started working for myself too, it was also a long road and i am still learning things as well.

Your not alone, theres an old saying amongst Freemasons "Its the hope of reward that sweetens the labour".

I didn't mean I was done. I wish. Got years to go too. But congratulations to yourself.

[Acrogeokickic]

I didn't mean I was done. I wish. Got years to go too. But congratulations to yourself.

Look on the bright side. When all is said and done the government will be telling you how much you're allowed to earn, which will probably be less than me.

[CathBraun]

At the beginning of my independent career, I will have spent:

- 4 years in college (BA)
- 2 years in medical school
- 5 years in graduate school (PhD)
- 2 more years of medical school (MD)
- 3 years in residency
- 3 years in fellowship
... so 19 years in total... about 80'000+ hours, with probably about 50-55'000 of those hours on medicine alone... and that doesn't include studying after hours.

I will be 37 years old when I START a totally independent job.

It's a long road.

I just know enough at this point, to know where my limits are... and it took me a decade to get there. What I do know is that NOTHING replaces experience. There is a lot of really incorrect information being passed around on the internet (and quite a bit of it has been through these forums), and some of the time, people armed with internet printouts can be a doctor's nightmare. There are lots of individual accounts of the sort "I went to doctors for x years with y, but none of them did anything or understood what it is until I went to z site of the internet... therefore all doctors are stupid, unnecessary, and people should treat themselves".

I really hope, that after 19 years, I'm going to be more useful to my patients than an iPhone app.

You forgot to add how much debt you have from that adventure.
[good]

[Caunnysup]

Look on the bright side. When all is said and done the government will be telling you how much you're allowed to earn, which will probably be less than me.

You're probably right.

The thing is, I think I get a skewed perspective. I train at an institution that is legendary for providing top-tier care to literally anyone... where it is common to transfer patients from the (world famous) public hospital to the private one, if they require an intervention or test that cannot be done at the public hospital site, without any expectation that anyone other than the institution, will be paying for this. Our institution basically coined the phrase "humanistic medicine".

To me, the endless attack on the healthcare system that are everpresent throughout the internet, and permeate these boards, are nails-on-a-chalkboard, because the concept of turning someone away is alien to me.

On the other hand, after spending ALL of my youth grinding away at my training (which graduates less than 400 people a year in the entire United States), I expect that I have earned the right to a higher-than-average salary. Of course, when the goal is to ensure that there is no way to EARN your way into the upper class, I am not going to be surprised if the MD salaries continue to drop.

[b7RKli4l]

You're probably right.

The thing is, I think I get a skewed perspective. I train at an institution that is legendary for providing top-tier care to literally anyone... where it is common to transfer patients from the (world famous) public hospital to the private one, if they require an intervention or test that cannot be done at the public hospital site, without any expectation that anyone other than the institution, will be paying for this. Our institution basically coined the phrase "humanistic medicine".

To me, the endless attack on the healthcare system that are everpresent throughout the internet, and permeate these boards, are nails-on-a-chalkboard, because the concept of turning someone away is alien to me.

On the other hand, after spending ALL of my youth grinding away at my training (which graduates less than 400 people a year in the entire United States), I expect that I have earned the right to a higher-than-average salary. Of course, when the goal is to ensure that there is no way to EARN your way into the upper class, I am not going to be surprised if the MD salaries continue to drop.

But then again, this line of work shouldn't necessarily be for those who wish to achieve exorbitant compensatation. A six figure income is certainly a higher-than-average salary.

[GrolmangHat27]

put it this way, there are a lot of people in this world who sit on their arse and do nothing about their lives.

you may be at a low point, but at least at the end of it all you can be comfortable in the knowledge that you tried and had the conviction to stay on the chosen path.

you'll do alright,and no doubt that towards the end of your working career you will be comfortable enough financially to retire and be your own person once more.

I'm quite jaded about my career choice now,but I only have 12 more years left,the pay is good and I will be comfortable enough financially to leave and still be able to support my family in the years to come.

[imporesweemo]

What field are you specialising in, Gnius?

[BorBitExatini]

But then again, this line of work shouldn't necessarily be for those who wish to achieve exorbitant compensatation. A six figure income is certainly a higher-than-average salary.

I keep hearing this. And every time I have to wonder - do people actually think before they speak, or are they so busy trying to ensure that no one lives better than they do, that they simply forget to.

You are saying one of the following:
1. you are fine with people in other jobs (which are presumably less humanitarian) making "exorbitant" amounts of money, but the people actually helping you don't really deserve it.
2. if ^ is untrue, then I have to assume that you think that no one should make money.

--- Post Update ---

What field are you specialising in, Gnius?

I am thinking Hematology/Oncology.

[Japakefrope]

I keep hearing this. And every time I have to wonder - do people actually think before they speak, or are they so busy trying to ensure that no one lives better than they do, that they simply forget to.

You are saying one of the following:
1. you are fine with people in other jobs (which are presumably less humanitarian) making "exorbitant" amounts of money, but the people actually helping you don't really deserve it.
2. if ^ is untrue, then I have to assume that you think that no one should make money.

Every time you make a post about your profession, it ends up turning into a Drama Queen rant about the lack of respect/compensation you will receive for all of the schooling and hard work involved. Did you, per chance, not realize this before entering your profession? I do not quite understand the dichotomy of wanting to be a hero and help the sick but also requiring exorbitant compensation for doing so. As an aside, I have an Oncologist friend that makes a 7 figure salary with his practice and lives quite comfortably. Perhaps you should add an MBA to your laundry list of degrees to ensure you market yourself properly upon opening a practice. Also, the information below makes me wonder what on earth you are complaining about. Stop trying to play the victim, it's really growing tiresome.


Oncologists are among the higher-earning physicians. Their 2011 median income, $285,000, puts them in the top half of the 22 specialties surveyed. Within the specialty, there are extremes: while 9% of oncologists earned under $100,000, 14% took in $500,000 or more. http://www.medscape.com/features/sli.../2011/oncology

There are over a thousand physicists (many with multiple Ph.D's), that work at CERN with the LHD. Their research could one day unlock the mysteries of the universe, and possibly result in the bettering of human life. I would imagine their salaries wouldn't exactly classify them as being wealthy.

[Soassesaisp]

You're bitter brah, did you go that route to "help people and really deserve it" or to make money?

[CevepBiageCefm]

Every time you make a post about your profession, it ends up turning into a Drama Queen rant about the lack of respect/compensation you will receive for all of the schooling and hard work involved. Did you, per chance, not realize this before entering your profession?

You know, I didn't start talking about money. Maybe I'd talk less about it, if you stopped looking into my wallet so intently.

I do not quite understand the dichotomy of wanting to be a hero and help the sick but also requiring exorbitant compensation for doing so.

I like your fluid definition of exorbitant. I also think that if you don't understand that dichotomy, it's clear that you haven't accomplished a professional career.

As for scientists being underpaid, **** I could have told you that. Oh wait... I have... many many times on this board. Of course, my solution would be to ensure that they are not underpaid... while clearly you'd like to use their low salaries as an excuse to lower the earnings of others.

That appears to be the difference between us. My first post was a lamentation over how tired I was, and how I hoped that my work would ultimately be of benefit. I sought to improve myself. You, on the other hand, appear to want to bring others down. Think about that.

[posimoka]

That appears to be the difference between us. My first post was a lamentation over how tired I was, and how I hopped that my work would ultimately be of benefit. I sought to improve myself. You, on the other hand, appear to want to bring others down. Think about that.

Please tell me how I sought to bring you down. I actually complemented you in my initial post.

[BundEnhamma]

Please tell me how I sought to bring you down. I actually complemented you in my initial post.

You did, and I was actually touched.

I just wish you wouldn't look into my wallet so much. I bitch a lot, because over the past decade I've seen most of my friends make many times what I do. Yet I persevered in my chosen profession, because it is exciting, dynamic, and honorable. But at some point, I have to make some money for my family... and maybe even some for myself. Frankly, I'm tired of not buying strawberries because they are too expensive.

I'm not looking to get rich. I want to have a nice house, a couple of cars, and enough money to put my kids through school and college, as well as supporting my parents, for whom I'm a retirement investment. I also have loans to pay off.

The prospects of getting to the end and having someone throw "well, you don't need to make money cause you wanted to help people" in my face pisses me off, and if you can't figure out why, I really can't help you understand.

[BqTyG9eS]

t.i

You did, and I was actually touched.

I just wish you wouldn't look into my wallet so much. I bitch a lot, because over the past decade I've seen most of my friends make many times what I do. Yet I persevered in my chosen profession, because it is exciting, dynamic, and honorable. But at some point, I have to make some money for my family... and maybe even some for myself. Frankly, I'm tired of not buying strawberries because they are too expensive.

I'm not looking to get rich. I want to have a nice house, a couple of cars, and enough money to put my kids through school and college, as well as supporting my parents, for whom I'm a retirement investment. I also have loans to pay off.

The prospects of getting to the end and having someone throw "well, you don't need to make money cause you wanted to help people" in my face pisses me off, and if you can't figure out why, I really can't help you understand.

Based on your dedication, I have zero doubts that you will achieve each and every one of those things. It will be well deserved I can assure you. Very few people are able to put themselves through so much, but I guarantee when the day you open the doors to your practice for the first time you will have zero regrets.

[twiffatticy]

Acu's right here. I can pull up a certain thread from several years ago that made you sound like an entitled brat. No one (I hope) forced you down your chosen path. The dedication it requires and the fact that you seem to be sticking to it is indeed commendable, and no one should think otherwise. That said, it was your choice and what ends up coming to you is not dictated by universal paradigms or being "better" than others. In the end, you chose to help people, and hat should be focus number one and your main source of satisfaction. If in 2030 you find yourself making lessthan a corrupt trader, and are spiteful for it, then you have made a big mistake. To me, and Donald Trump, your education will have you heads and shoulders above 99% of your peers at social gatherings.