[Phlkxkbh]

Our regular weekend group is having some trouble deciding what our regular game should be. For years it has been a regular skins and greenies game, but with full handicaps. A couple of us with lower handicaps don't believe this to be fair in that it gives an unfair advantage to those carrying double digits. For example, my handicap is generally the lowest in the group. I'm currently a 2, but expect when the new numbers come out I'll be down to 1 or 0, and will stay there for the rest of the season. As the low handicap everyne else wheels off me, meaning that I am giving shots to everyone in the group, which includes 10 shots a round to the 3 players who have 12+ handicaps. In effect, myself and another guy in the group with a low handicap only have about 8-9 holes we have a realistic chance of winning skins on. Any birdies we get on the lower handicap holes are going to be coverd up by someone in the group who pars that hole but also gets a stroke. Last weekend I had an eagle on a par 5 covered up by someone's birdie. It's a little frustrating when eagles can't win a skin.

The 4 handicapper has actually stopped participating in the game because he seldom wins. I'm actually thinking of following suit because each weekend I'm generally just donating to those who are wnnlling holes with their net birdies. What makes matter even a little tougher is that four players in our group also play off the senior tees, which means their handicap is essentailly based off a different course than the one I'm playing. We've talked about using 1/2 handicaps, but the seniors think this is unfair and don't understand (or choose not to) why they shouldn't be able to "get all their pops." I've explained that handicaps are intended to level the playing field when two players are gong head-to-head, not for group play. They don't see it that way.

This is a pretty good group of guys, and it's not like we play for high stakes - $5 per player gets thrown into the skins pot. But it also causing a little bit of friction among us. I'd be curious what your regular game is, and how your group decided to make it a fair game for everyone.

[apannamma]

I would just play wolf. Takes the handicaps out of the equation.

[johnsonjunior]

If your playing partners wants to play with handicaps in mind, I would ask them to play by the rule. Play the ball as it lies...no foot wedges, no gimmies, nothing. No break what so ever.

Handicap should be used during stroke play, not during skins with 3 other players. 12 handicap is capable of par/birdie on any given hole...it is 12 handicap cause one can't put the entire game together for 18 holes...

Good luck...I guess those 12+ handicap playing partners wants the money more than game and friendship this game brings. Some folks are hard headed when money is involved, so maybe bow out from the skins money pot.

[CHEAPPoem]

I would just play wolf. Takes the handicaps out of the equation.

agreed with Cookie here. Wolf is a great game.

[Phlkxkbh]

Thanks for the response. Just for clarification. On any given day we will have 8-10 players in our regular group with handicaps ranging from 2-14, and all points in between. Four of our regulars are seniors. One of them is about an 8-9, the other three are 11-14.

[animilius]

Skins really isn't supposed to be played with handicaps. If you have one really high handicapper in the group maybe you can give him some stokes on the longer holes, but the whole point of skins -- assuming you are carrying over holes that are tied -- is that you can cash in by winning just 1 or 2 holes out of the entire round. I think Skins is a great game when you have widely variable handicaps in your group, or if you are playing with guys who you rarely play with and you don't know if their handicaps are legit or not.

Wolf is a good alternative, if your group doesn't want to play skins, but I think your higher handcappers might complain the first few times you go lone wolf and win a big hole with a birdie (especially if you play where birdies double the payout). I think Wolf works a little better with players of equal ability, and therefore it is actually a good game to play WITH handicaps, but it works either way.

Oh, and I just read your response that your group is actually bigger than 1 foursome. In that case, play some version of Chicago, where everyone has a points quota based on their handicap, and then you try to win points over your quota. I think that format favors the better golfers, and the sandbaggers.

[Cajlwdvx]

I would just play wolf. Takes the handicaps out of the equation.

God no! Wolf is awful and just comes down to blind luck in the end.

My standard game is 10-10-10 against each person in the group and you can press once on each one of those bets. This way your only playing against each person in the group, so you eagle may have been halved in your match against the one guy, but I'm sure it took the hole against the other three. Plus you can then have a team match 2 vs 2 and then maybe a little something on the junk.

Thats how we normally play anyway.

[jenilopaz]

We just play golf. Stroke Play.

[Susanleech]

Our course does this sort of thing most weekend mornings, just throw in $5 and play your round.
No handicapping. That does slant it toward the low caps, but that's what it is. If I asked for strokes I'd be laughed at. Simply wouldn't happen.

If the boys really want strokes, try playing 80% handicap or 50% or something. It'd be a pain to work out at the start, but playing full cap on skins just seems flat out unfair...and I say that as a guy who would make out like a bandit with that system.

[voodoosdv]

We just play regular stroke play. Most of us r pretty even so its usually fair.

[PaulRyansew]

I play with some old guys on the weekends. We'll have 3 groups and play a $5 nassau with ctp's for $1. Each group is a team. You try to put an ABCD player in each group. Must use one gross score and 2 nets per hole. So say I par a par4 and two other guys get a 5 net 4 then the total written down will be 12 for that hole. At the end you check each teams total score for each hole to determine who won what in the nassau. Works pretty well.

Playing skins with handicaps sucks for the lower handicaps. Its like trying to play in a net tourney as a scratch player...pointless.

[lesso73]

I play with a large group that plays at least 3 times a week and we never play individual skins with handicap for all the reasons you're stating. There is no way to make that really fair. One day each week we do play team skins similar to what MarcH discussed with ABCD players, and sometimes we will use handicaps in that format. The fairest individual game we play is a points quota game where you earn 3 points for birdie, 2 for par, 1 for bogie, 0 for double bogie and -1 for triple or above. Points quota is determined by taking one's handicap from 36, i.e. 36-14 handicap would have to pull 22 points for the 18 holes. Winner(s) determined on who ends up most plus to quota. We play other games for variety, but I'd say the points game is our "regular" game.

[lesso73]

MUTiger, I noticed you have some senior players playing from the Senior Tees. We don't in our regular group, but we have that situation in club tournaments. Whenever there are players competing from different tees, handicaps must be adjusted. If you let them play with their regular course handicap, you're in effect giving about a two stroke additional advantage. Here is an example of how the handicaps should be adjusted:

White tees:70.2/121
Gold tees: 68.4/114

• All men playing from the White tees receive their full Course Handicap.
• For men playing from the Gold tees, subtract 2 points from each player’sCourse Handicap (70.2 – 68.4 = 1.8 rounded to 2).

That's a very abreviated example. If interested, you can read about it here:

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...rent_tees.html

This really upset our senior Gold Tee folk when we got this ruling from the GSGA until it was fully explained to them