[amotoustict]

I am considering getting a 64* wedge but was wondering how many of my fellow THP'ers use one and for what shots. Does it give that much of an advantage over say a 60 degree lob wedge? Currently playing the Adams Pugliellis 52, 56, 60. I really like the wedges but they dont make a 64. I tried the CG15 64 degree and the club felt great, really good spin.

[gSjQEEmq]

To be honest, I used mine so rarely. There arent many situations where you need to use it except extreme recovery situations. In fact, I got so tempted to use it out of alot of tight lies and simple chip shots, it hurt me more than helped me.

I'm not a good player, (I average high 90's), but from my expirience the 60 can do almost anything the 64 can do, and more. It's a bit more versatile.

[Niiinioa]

Keith,
During the wedge shoot out, I tried both a 64* and even a 73*. I found them far less versatile compared to the 60* overall. I think it will come down to pure preference, but I do believe most amateurs will lose strokes with a higher lofted wedge like that based on hitting it thick.

Earlier in the year we got a chance to speak with David Leadbetter that was gracious enough to discuss some things about the game and equipment. One of the things he said is that far too players carry a 60* wedge because "they are supposed to" and they think it will be easier when in fact it is one of the hardest clubs to hit. He went on to say that if people would go through a wedge fitting and base their decisions on full and half club shots rather than creativity, they would score better overall.

At first I did not think much of it, but over the course of this year I have counted the number of times (sort of) that I have lost strokes with a 60* because of that reason and it seems almost once a round I will thin one or catch one fat and it is always with the extreme high lofted wedge because I try and get cute with it.

Go with what fits best Keith and do not sweat the cute shots that you rarely have to perform or only pull off once a round or so.

[AlexanderPalamayr]

During the wedge shoot out, I tried both a 64* and even a 73*.

Wow! Did you feel like you were going to hit yourself in the chin with the 73*?

[amotoustict]

Thanks for the info and advice guys...both make plenty of sense. I think Ledbetter is correct and thinking about my own experience I do carry that 60 b/c someone said I should. I have mishit it many times but more attributable to trying to play it out thicker grass that I should and slipping the club under the ball. It does take a lot of practice.

The wedge fitting is a great idea and this may be dumb question but what does one entail? I know the regular fittings I get include loft, lie, length that type of thing for regular clubs. Is it the same for the wedges? I always thought you simple picked the lofts you wanted to play and that was it.

[AlexanderPalamayr]

Wedge fitting will involve the typical length and lie. The bounce will also be a consideration which depends on your swing type and the conditions that you play.

[Niiinioa]

I went through a wedge fitting twice. Once at the TMPL and once with a local fitter. Both were great and both were extremely helpful. While they did address all of those things Keith, they also address a big factor and that is bounce. Another reason I love the Cleveland dot system.

Determing what you need for the courses you play and even more importantly what you need for your swing.

And I agree with you, I think most carry a 60* because they are supposed to. Not really the case with avid golfers a lot of times, but in many cases around the world it is certainly true.

[amotoustict]

Going to look into getting a wedge fitting. This is the last stage of the bag revamp for 2k10 and I want to improve my short game so the proper clubs will be key....and of course a lot of practice.

[aaaaaaahabbbby]

FWIW I play and practice ALOT and find the 60* less versitale than dropping down two to 58*...that being said, I played a course a little while ago that had ridicilous greens; tile would stimp lower...on that course I could see the need for a 60* and maybe all the way to 62*; if you didn't spin the ball coming onto the green you were off the other side, simple as that..

[amotoustict]

Do you have better control with 58? Do you recommend a higher or lower bounce with 58?

[Feloascarlelt]

I have 62*, 64*, 68*, and 73* degree lob wedges. None of them are in my everyday playing bag. I use them to just horse around with, and to cause myself, and others grief when I take them to driving range. My everyday, playing LW is a 60* degree model. I can do everything with it that I have ever needed to do while playing. One nice thing about my 60* wedge is that it has zero bounce, which allows me to use it pretty much anywhere I have ever thought I needed to. It is also my go to green side bunker club. It also matches up well for me with my 56*, 52*, and 48* degree, every day playing wedges.

If you do go with a 60* or higher wedge, remember these two things; Practice a lot with it, practice with it some more, then some more, and don't be afraid to swing it when you have to. A LW can be your best friend in your bag, or it can have you contemplating suicide, which of course is not an option. Enjoy this adventure.

[amotoustict]

A 73*....what does it do, chip into your shirt pocket? That has to be the higest lofted wedge on the market?

[Niiinioa]

You use a wedge with zero bounce out of a sandtrap? Wow. Its normally the exact opposite and the reason that so many 56* wedges have higher bounces.

[Niiinioa]

A 73*....what does it do, chip into your shirt pocket? That has to be the higest lofted wedge on the market?

There is an 80* wedge by a smaller brand.

[DrBrightonone]

I have two sets of wedges I play regularly. One set has 52-8/56-12/60-6 wedges in it. I also have another set I will interchange that has 54-12/58-8 wedges. I go to the two wedge set when I need to add an extra long iron or a 5 wood to my standard set. Depends on the course. I find the 54/58 wedges are just as versatile as the three wedges set. I just open the blade on either and can add a couple of degrees of loft that way.

Today, we had a frost delay, so while we waited our turn, we all were practicing flop shots, making bets on closest to the pin, etc. It was fun practice. It is also necessary if you are going to use anything higher than a 56 degree wedge. The 60 really needs practice because the sharp leading edge can cause a lot of grief if you don't make clean contact.

[dselectronics]

To me, the driving force behind wedges is the PGA Tour in that people want to emulate the pro's and so they'll equip themselves accordingly.

But the primary reason why the Tour is using 60 and 64 degree wedges is because of the fuzzy linoleum that passes for a green these days on Tour. The linoleum is a direct result of the distance boom and is a way of defending the greens and the courses as a whole from the "Bomb and Gouge" attack which is the way the game seems to be played these days.

In order to be able to stop a ball on such slippery surfaces, the lofts are getting greater and greater in an effort to apply as much spin as is possible to keep the ball from rolling off the green. But in the real world where we play, you'd be hard-pressed to encounter green speeds like those on tour and as such, the "need" for these higher lofted wedges doesn't really exist.

The highest lofted wedge I carry is 55 degrees and that is primarily a sand wedge, meaning that I hardly ever use it outside of a bunker. My "go to" wedge is a 51 degree which I use for virtually every shot inside of 100 yards except for chipping, for which I employ a variety of different clubs depending on the situation.

Unlike Leadbetter, I'm a firm believer in creativity and that means using a wedge from a square or even slightly closed face all the way to laying it wide open to the point of almost facing skyward (and everything in between, of course). I love the versatility that offers and rather than trying to calibrate my swing to 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and Full increments, I'm free to come up with whatever my imagination can conjure and I find that far more effective and far more satisfying.

But if you're more of a mechanical player who's used to a square setup and you don't think you'd be comfortable experimenting with open stances and clubfaces, then I would suggest a set of wedges that extend beyond your 9-iron loft in 4 degree increments with the most lofted not exceeding 56 degrees. There are also a variety of bounce profiles available to accommodate virtually every style of play and whether you're a "digger" or a "sweeper", there's a wedge out there somewhere just for you.

As far as anything more lofted than 56 degrees goes, I would say "forget it". They're way too hard to hit and unless you're playing greens that stimp out in the low teens - quite unnecessary as well.

So either go get set up with wedges that serve to extend your iron progression, or maybe take a shot at being creative, opening up that stance, opening up the face and having some fun with just one or two wedges.

There are no "correct" answers here and only the individual can decide what's best for them - even if ol' Dave doesn't think so.

(But he DOES seem to be pretty good with bathrooms and hotel corridors...)



-JP

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Thanks for the info and advice guys...both make plenty of sense. I think Ledbetter is correct and thinking about my own experience I do carry that 60 b/c someone said I should. I have mishit it many times but more attributable to trying to play it out thicker grass that I should and slipping the club under the ball. It does take a lot of practice.

The wedge fitting is a great idea and this may be dumb question but what does one entail? I know the regular fittings I get include loft, lie, length that type of thing for regular clubs. Is it the same for the wedges? I always thought you simple picked the lofts you wanted to play and that was it.

IMHO, there are two big differences between a regular iron fitting and a wedge fitting. As JB mentioned, bounce is a key issue. I also am curious about Pro's choice of wedges, but given the state of my bunker play last year under pressure, I am about the last person to question anyone.

The other aspect is that distance gapping is closely addressed. You should have a good quality launch monitor and use your ball for the fitting. I would take any David Leadpoison (aka Ledbetter) advice with a large grain of salt, but I agree he is probably correct here.

Finally, some food for thought. Have you considered some short game/wedge instruction prior to investing in new equipment? The reason I mention that is that I had a very subtle decline in my wedge play for a lot of last year, culminating with a virtual collapse. I had developed a swing problem that carrying five wedges would not have solved. You may want to run that by Andy before taking the plunge.

[Feloascarlelt]

We don't have what I consider real bunker sand out here. Picture this, sand that is watered along with the grass, then allowed to bake all day long in triple digit heat. It gets hard. Now factor in very little replacement sand being added on a not so consistent basis after the wind, and other golfers have removed most of the good, soft stuff. Add in a worker who only smooths the very top of the sand with a tractor dragging a heavy metal screen in the morning effectively leaving hard pan underneath. I have yet to learn to hit balls off tight lies, hard pan, or even very firm sand effectively with a club that has bounce. Now if I play on a course with real sandy, softer, sand where bounce is helpful, then I will use my SW.

You use a wedge with zero bounce out of a sandtrap? Wow. Its normally the exact opposite and the reason that so many 56* wedges have higher bounces.

[dselectronics]

IMHO, there are two big differences between a regular iron fitting and a wedge fitting. As JB mentioned, bounce is a key issue. I also am curious about Pro's choice of wedges, but given the state of my bunker play last year under pressure, I am about the last person to question anyone.

The other aspect is that distance gapping is closely addressed. You should have a good quality launch monitor and use your ball for the fitting. I would take any David Leadpoison (aka Ledbetter) advice with a large grain of salt, but I agree he is probably correct here.

Finally, some food for thought. Have you considered some short game/wedge instruction prior to investing in new equipment? The reason I mention that is that I had a very subtle decline in my wedge play for a lot of last year, culminating with a virtual collapse. I had developed a swing problem that carrying five wedges would not have solved. You may want to run that by Andy before taking the plunge.

I'm not picking a fight here, but I don't see how a launch monitor can help anyone choose a wedge and a bounce for that wedge.

Launch monitors may be fine for full shot analytics, but wedges are not about distance, or ball speed, or clubhead speed or any of the other things that launch monitors are used to determine or define.

Wedges are about control and feel. And to me, the only way to determine whether a wedge suits someone's particular need is for that person to take several wedges out onto a course and play with them in real situations and then decide which one is best.

As far as bounce profiles are concerned, yes there are many to choose from but all of them are "stock" in some way or another and no matter how many "systems" are being offered, the only way to really "dial-in" a proper bounce profile to a particular person is to first choose the wedge that feels best with a profile that most closely matches your requirements and then go out and play with it. There is no formula or "player profile" that can tell you what works or doesn't work for your specific way of hitting a wedge unless you actually go out and hit that wedge. Afterward, when you've had some time to formulate a set of "likes" and "dislikes", you can either decide to try another wedge, or have the one you're using ground to your liking.

When I buy a wedge, I select a bounce that I think is pretty close to what I'm after and I always end up spending a fair amount of time in my garage grinding, shaping and polishing until I get the action I want. I've never played a wedge that I didn't first have to "adjust" a bit - and that takes time and it's more "trial and error" than system or formula.

Wedges are very personal clubs and are very much like wearing a great pair of shoes. You could have your foot measured in twenty different ways and have a pair of shoes made just to those specs, but you're not going to know if you'll like those shoes until you try them on and walk around in them for awhile and there will usually have to be some adjustments made in order for them to fit perfectly.


-JP

[skydaypat]

i got a short game lesson once.

the way the pro put it to me was this:

if you need to carry more than 75% of the distance of your shot, use my 60
if its 50% then use my 56
if its less than 50% then PW
if its a clear path you pick whatever club you need

ive found this saving me a lot of shots, and would say this lesson on its own cut my handicap by the greatest margin..

my typical bunker club is my 60. primarily due to the sand conditions.

ive never thought i needed more loft than my 60.