[Pashtet]

I bought recently a biography of a Siddhar who lived in the modern times. Chuttukol Mayandi Swamigal (1858 -1930). His Jeevasamadhi is in Kattikulam near Manamadurai. I had heard about him for a long time.

Once Mayandi Swamigal was travelling by train from Madurai to Manamadurai. The English TTE thought that he was a beggar and asked him to get out of the train since he refused to produce the ticket. Swamiji jumped out of the train which stopped immediately.

Swamigal went and sat in front of a cactus bush.

But the train would not start. Technical help was brought. But they could not start the engine. People told the TTE that the engine would not start without Mayandi swamigal.

The TTE went and stood in front of Swamigal. Swamigal said "என்ன அப்பு இரயில் மானாமதுரை போகணுமா? என்னை எதிர்பார்த்து ரொம்ப நேரமா மேளதாளத்தோடு நிக்கறாங்க, பாவம், சரி போவோம் வாங்க " and sat in the train. The train started.

He is credited with many such miracles.

Mayandi Swamigal's disciples are still there. He has a large following in India and Burma.

But please note that no one knew what Mayandi Swamigal practiced.

The disciples do not know what the Guru practices. The Guru knows and instructs the Shishya. Even other shishyas do not know about the practice of a shishya.

This is how the Sampradhya/Tradition functions and will continue to function.

So it is not surprising that we do not know what the Siddhars practiced and how they got their Siddhis.

We can only make assumptions based on their Sampradhaya and writings.

[majestictwelve]

A question usually asked is about the Fake Sadhus and Siddhars.

The genuine Siddhars avoid public contact. Some of them have been known to drive away people. They have contempt for money and worldly belongings. Their miracles are more of a Leela than anything else.

There was a Siddha in Srinagar in Uttaranchal state. There is a big heap of stones near his Samadhi. The story is that he used to collect stones and throw them at people who went near him.

But some of them do come out of seclusion to teach and propagate the ideas. Otherwise many of the old ideas and ways to salvation would be lost for ever.

There is also another genuine problem. A Guru may have many Shishyas. But not all of them would achieve what the Guru has achieved. Sometimes a Shishya may even do better than the Guru.

Getting a good Guru and Mantra Deeksha does not guarantee spiritual attainment. 99% will fail. Less than one percent will succeed. Thus we will have a number of failed aspirants.

Some of these would have achieved some Siddhis. Then they fall prey to the temptation of the Samsara. They proclaim themselves as Siddhas/Sadhus and impress people with their Siddhis. After some time many of them even lose their powers. But they continue to earn money.

Everyone in this world wants quick solutions. Get rich quickly without putting in any effort. This general nature of humanity is the fertile breeding ground for fake Sadhus and Siddhars.

There are Siddhars even now in Thiruvannamalai and other hills. But then prefer solitude and avoid coming into contact with humanity. I can not imagine any Siddhar putting up with the gross commercialization of the Giri Valam in Thiruvannamali.

I was once asked whether I had met any living Siddha. When I answered Yes, the next question where and how can we meet them.

I am giving my answer: Siddhars are not God Men. They are pursuing their Spiritual goals. Interacting with the society is an impediment to their goals. They could be walking amongst us. Many of them are classified as Mad by the society.

But please do remember that all Mad men are not Siddhars. Sometime back every mad man in Tamil Nadu was being chased by people as Siddhars.

Leave the Siddhas alone. Some of them who are interested in teaching the society do make themselves known. But even here they are only teachers. Not God men. Their Siddhis are not for fulfilling the desires of the common man.

[Vigeommighica]

siddhar
a person that live all the unconditional need money anger meat
everthing away from they mind

[wrenjmerg]

I quote from The Raseśvara-darśana or Mercurial System --from the The Sarva-Darsana-Samgraha by Madavacharya.

Other Máheśvaras there are who, while they hold the identity of self with God, insist upon the tenet that the liberation in this life taught in all the systems depends upon the stability of the bodily frame, and therefore celebrate the virtues of mercury or quicksilver as a means of strengthening the system.

Mercury is called párada, because it is a means of conveyance beyond the series of transmigratory states. Thus it has been said—

"It gives the farther shore of metempsychosis: it is called párada."

And again in the Rasárṇava—

"It is styled párada because it is employed for the highest end by the best votaries.

"Since this in sleep identical with me, goddess, arises from my members, and is the exudation of my body, it is called rasa."

"Liberation is declared in the six systems to follow the death of the body.

"Such liberation is not cognised in perception like an emblic myrobalan fruit in the hand.

"Therefore a man should preserve that body by means of mercury and of medicaments."

Govinda-bhagavat also says—

"Holding that the enjoyments of wealth and of the body are not permanent, one should strive

"After emancipation; but emancipation results from knowledge, knowledge from study, and study is only possible in a healthy body."

The body, some one may say, is seen to be perishable, how can its permanency be effected? Think not so, it is replied, for though the body, as a complexus of six sheaths or wrappers of the soul, is dissoluble, yet the body, as created by Hara and Gaurí under the names of mercury and mica, may be perdurable. Thus it is said in the Rasahṛidaya—

"They who, without quitting the body, have attained to a new body, the creation of Hara and Gaurí,

"They are to be lauded, perfected by mercury, at whose service is the aggregate of magic texts."

The ascetic, therefore, who aspires to liberation in this life should first make to himself a glorified body. And inasmuch as mercury is produced by the creative conjunction of Hara and Gaurí, and mica is produced from Gaurí, mercury and mica are severally identified with Hara and Gaurí in the verse—

"Mica is thy seed, and mercury is my seed;

"The combination of the two, O goddess, is destructive of death and poverty."

Thus it is said in the Rasasiddhánta—

"The liberation of the personal soul is declared in the mercurial system, O subtile thinker.

"In the tenets of other schools which repose on a diversity of argument,

"Know that this knowledge and knowable is allowed in all sacred texts;

"One not living cannot know the knowable, and therefore there is and must be life." This again shows the importance placed by the Siddhars on the Human body and reasons for their search for Kayakalpa and other methods of prolonging life.

If they were spiritual why were they obsessed with transforming other elements to Gold?

The system of medicine Siddha Vaidya used metals like Gold,lead etc. Gold was considered the most noble of elements. It was used in preparations of medicines to prolong life. Siddhars used transmutation because that was the only way they could obtain these metals.

We transferred our obsession with Gold to the Siddhars who attached no material value to Gold.

I have seen an old text where the procedure for attaining Ashtama Siddhi starts with making a hut out of gold bricks.

Some of the Siddhars worshiped Deities like Swarna Akarshana Bhairava and Swarna Akarshana Ganapathi. Swarna Akarshna Bhairava and his worship is from Rudra Yamala. Yamalas are ancient Tantrik texts in Sanskrit. Many of the prayers we recite and the procedure for worship today are from the Yamalas.

[Knillagrarp]

....The system of medicine Siddha Vaidya used metals like Gold,lead etc. Gold was considered the most noble of elements. It was used in preparations of medicines to prolong life. Siddhars used transmutation because that was the only way they could obtain these metals.

Why is gold precious and not lead or mercury? There is a scientific reason for this and Sanat Kumar explains why here.

To summarize Kumar's reasoning, for an element to be valuable, it must be chemically stable (everything that is combustible is out), it must be solid (all the gases are out). It cannot be easily combustible, or corrosive, or radioactive, i.e. deadly.

So, for an element to be precious, it has to be not a gas, doesn’t corrode or burst into flames, and doesn’t kill you, and be rare as well.

Kumar points out that, all this leaves us with just five elements: rhodium, palladium, silver, platinum and gold, and all of them, as it happens, are considered precious metals.

We can further whittle this list, Silver tarnishes easily, rodium or palladium were not discovered until the modern time. That leaves only platinum and gold. For an ancient Gold smith, platinum, with much higher melting temperature relative to gold, would have been much harder to work with.

So, it was no accident that gold became a kind of lingua franca of commerce.

There is no scientific evidence to show that gold has any kind of life extending properties whatsoever. Siddhars may have believed as such, but such thinking is nothing but pure superstition.

If siddhars were obsessed with converting mercury to gold, the motivation must be nothing more esoteric than that of the alchemists of Europe. Also, if Siddhars are supposed to be interested in spiritual life and all that jazz, why were they interested in extending mere material life in the first place anyway?

What Siddhars believed can be anything that we want to imagine, but they cannot be anything definitively beyond what can be observed and verified. Anything beyond that is nothing deserving of more respect than mere surreptitious faith.

Cheers!

[Tveabuti]

Thank you, Nara.

If siddhars were obsessed with converting mercury to gold, the motivation must be nothing more esoteric than that of the alchemists of Europe.

The similarity between the alchemists of Europe and the Tantriks of India has been studied extensively.

There is an good book on Alchemy --Alchemy and Alchemists by Sean martin

He has written about Chinese and Indian Alchemy also.

I quote from that book.

Also, if Siddhars are supposed to be interested in spiritual life and all that jazz, why were they interested in extending mere material life in the first place anyway?

I had answered this question earlier .

2. Why did they want to live for ever?

It a a very long time to attain Siddhis. The idea is that you spent almost one life time in the practice of Yoga and attaining Siddhis. Then you seek Spirituality. The Siddhars search for Kayakalpa and para kaya pravesa were all based on this concept. Attain perfect control over your body as it is the instrument for seeking Spiritual attainments.

Again this has a lot of relevance to their philosophy. We will discus that later.

[Clielldub]

..... People told the TTE that the engine would not start without Mayandi swamigal.

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more.

Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take.

All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion.

Cheers!

[Paul Bunyan]

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more.

Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take.

All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion.

Cheers!

Strong terms. But I beg to disagree. These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer.

Siddhars are well known for their psychic powers.

The controversy about the existence of psychic powers is very old. ESP, Telepathy , Telekinesis and so on. In fact in India we go even further. We believe that a man could harness the powers of nature and use it for various purposes. The term "Mantrikam" comes from that. You could call it Black magic.

There have been many reportings like the one I quoted about Mayandi Swamigal. Paul Brenton was one of the earliest to record such instances in his book "Search in Secret India." A number of books in English written by Western authors like Sadhus: Holy Men of India, by Dolf Hartsuiker. Published by Thames & Hudson, 1993, Sadhus, un voyage initiatique chez les ascètes de l'Inde, by Patrick Levy, Editions du Relié, 2009 have come out. There are many books published during the British rule. Many of these documented the psychic powers of sadhus.

A number of studies have taken place in the West and the erstwhile Soviet Union.

A number of studies have also been done by reputed institutions such as Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS) , All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS). But these were mainly concentrated on the therapeutic powers of Yoga.

The book Psychic discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrnder was a path breaking work. Studies in the U.S have all been oriented towards as to how to obtain these powers and use them for Military purposes. So most of the research remains secret.

I will show how even such researches will never convince the skeptics.

Swami Rama was studied at the Menninger Foundation in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet. Although Swami Rama wore a facemask and gown to prevent allegations that he moved the needle with his breath or body movements, and air vents in the room had been covered, at least one physician observer who was present at the time was not convinced and expressed the opinion that air movement was somehow the cause. --Wikipedia

Look at the way this is worded. It is only an allegation by some observers. Only one man has disagreed. No one has provided any evidence as to how it was done. So they have even denied the happening. He either moved it or not moved it. How can you term it as "alleged by some observers'. Let us face it. We can never convince the skeptics.

I am sure you could also quote from many sources.

The popularity or fascination of Siddhars in Tamil Nadu is mainly because of the psychic powers exhibited by them.

People especially in India believe in Psychic powers. Belief in the West is growing. It is not total disbelief like what it was 100 years or even 50years back.

We know of the so called Western Scientific knowldge. These are the people who propagated the idea that having a bath gives you tuberculosis and what not. We know of the Western Doctors who carried on a campaign against Breast feeding for a long period of time.

Religion is a set of Beliefs. Beliefs are called so because they can not be proved. What is normal belief or superstitious belief depends on the person. As the saying goes"My belief is Belief. Your belief is Superstition.

[urbalatte]

For hundreds of years the Western Science called Meditation a superstitious belief of the east. Hinduism and Buddhism. Now almost all the Doctors agree about the therapeutic value of Meditation. They even have Christian Meditation now. This is all due to one man. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Transcendental Meditation. They proved the therapeutic value of Meditation. I remember the skeptism with which many of the original researches were received. How much of scorn was poured. Now this has become a fact.

So much for the so called Scientific reasoning.

[TheBest-Host]

...These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer.

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I made my comment only because your account of Mayandi was presented as fact. Now, you have confirmed it is only your belief. I will leave it at that.

<b>

.... They proved the therapeutic value of Meditation. I remember the skeptism with which many of the original researches were received. How much of scorn was poured. Now this has become a fact.

So much for the so called Scientific reasoning.

I don't know what kind of scorn you are talking about. Please understand that it took scientfic process to establish any benefit meditation may offer. It is not just asserted. Also, scientific process is all about seeking the truth and is not about clinging to past beliefs. They are never shy about owning up to any mistakes. The process of observation and verification is never ending. No theory is accepted unless it is established and verified. That is what scientific reasoning is.

Cheers!

[2puO4Rhf]

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I made my comment only because your account of Mayandi was presented as fact. Now, you have confirmed it is only your belief. I will leave it at that.

This statement is not acceptable. It gives an impression that all beliefs are equally valid. Religious beliefs including the so called psychic powers are unsubstantiated beliefs, AKA, superstitions. On the other side what we have are (a) established facts, abd (b) beliefs that are derived from careful observations but still lacking clinching proof. To claim equal status with this kind of beliefs to the ones you espouse is unacceptable.

I don't know what kind of scorn you are talking about. Please understand that it took scientfic process to establish any benefit meditation may offer. It is not just asserted. Also, scientific process is all about seeking the truth and is not about clinging to past beliefs. They are never shy about owning up to any mistakes. The process of observation and verification is never ending. No theory is accepted unless it is established and verified. That is what scientific reasoning is.

Cheers!

Mayandi swamigal's story is fact not belief. Please do not twist my words.

This statement is not acceptable. It gives an impression that all beliefs are equally valid. Religious beliefs including the so called psychic powers are unsubstantiated beliefs, AKA, superstitions. On the other side what we have are (a) established facts, abd (b) beliefs that are derived from careful observations but still lacking clinching proof. To claim equal status with this kind of beliefs to the ones you espouse is unacceptable. This is definitely not acceptable to me.

You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions. I am entitled to mine.

Now may I remind you that this entire thread is based on our beliefs.

[BeksTeene]

Sri. Nara,

Now that you have presented your Point of View, Please let the members decide what to believe or not to believe. All our members are educated.

Thank you.

[k1ePRlda]

We come again to the original questions.

1. Their Philosophy.

3. How did they achieve the Siddhis?

4. What is the role of Ashtama Siddhis in spirituality?

5. Why were the Siddhas eccentric to say the least?

I will take up this question first.

4. What is the role of Ashtama Siddhis in spirituality?

I have studied about Ashtama Siddhi and my daily prayers include a request to GOD for achieving them. But I find it hard to believe in them fully. Some of them are spiritual attainments which the Sadhaka would like to achieve. They are exaggerated to a great extent. Poetic fancy which we find in all our scriptures. I remember reading in the Indology discussion group about the amount of Gold that one of our seers got when he won a debate. In today's value it came to a couple of Billion U.S. Dollars. And the weight of that much gold!

So with these words I will try to guess why the Siddhars wanted some of the Siddhis.

Some of the Ashtama Siddhis (only those dealing with Physical Body. The others relate to Spiritual Achievements)

Anima (shrinking) -- The Yogi can become as minute as he pleases. -- Can not see any real use.--May be used when faced with wild animals. But then they were supposed to be friendly with them through some other Siddhis.

Mahima (illimitability) -- The power of increasing one's size without limit.-- Can not see any real use.

Lagima (lightness) -- He can make his body as light as cotton or feather.-- May be used for travelling. Could be carried by the wind.

Garima (weight) -- Capacity to weigh heavy, though seemingly small size. -- Could be used for weathering storms.

Prakamya (Para Kaya Prevesam) -- Power of disembodying and entering into other bodies. The only Siddhi which seems to have been used by the Siddhars.

No two books agree on the description of these Siddhis. Though the term is used often, the translations differ.

The general conclusion we can draw is that these Siddhis were used to travel wide distances, lead a life in remote places and prolong life.

[kennyguitar]

Sri. Nara,

Now that you have presented your Point of View, Please let the members decide what to believe or not to believe. All our members are educated.

This is acceptable, but before I sign off I have to record a couple of observations.

Mayandi swamigal's story is fact not belief. Please do not twist my words.

I based my comment on your words, "These are beliefs. I am a believer" from here. Therefore, I do not feel I twisted your words.

From what you have stated it seems you read this in a book about Mayandi Swamigal. Therefore, I really don't see how you can be so sure this is a fact. Anyway, as you have mentioned, let the readers decide.

Now may I remind you that this entire thread is based on our beliefs. If you are presenting these as beliefs it is fine. But you are also stating these are facts.

Cheers!

[DoctorTOneery]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

Vedic astrology is based on the observed connections between the astronomical positions of planets and a person's birth. Rules have been laid out based on this for predictive astrology. I am an amateur practicing this for many years. To my constant amazement, there indeed is a very strong correlation between the planet positions and the lives of human beings.

But, in your statements, you have said that it is 'absurd' to think that there is any effect of these inert planets on human lives! You did not say, let us look at this phenomenon with an open mind - your mind refuses to accept anything beyond the currently known physical science. It is also presented as though the astrologers are not forthcoming to be subjected to any 'controlled study' of the discipline. Actually the issue is the reverse - no scientist wants to undertake such a study, because there is apprehension on two fronts: 1. What if the study finds a correlation and 2. The reputation of such a scientist amongst the generally non believing, scientific community who do not believe in such 'superstitions'. They do not want to give any credence to the discipline, instead dismissing the discipline as 'not based on science'. I was trained as a scientist, so I know.

The recent news from a scientist from Minnesota is another example. He got confused between the Sayana and Nirayana systems and very openly stated that people's astrological birth signs are not valid! Did he at least understand the differences between the systems? Did he do any study of both disciplines? Nope. His starting thesis was that astrology is bunk and so he thought he found a major 'glitch' and to get publicized, he made an untenable discovery!

The reason I am saying all this is what Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji writes above has the same treatment from you in terms of you saying that such accounts should not be written by someone who should know better!

He has already stated when he started this thread that he will account for certain things based on BELIEF. Yet you seem to think that it is wrong to write such stories.

Science has it's limitations. It is not a holy grail, to account for everything and anything of the human condition. They do not have the tools necessary to fathom such things as moving a needle by mind etc. So to dismiss anything not proved by science out of hand with derision, saying it is only belief, in my mind is a limitation on imposes on oneself, without an open mind.

Regards,
KRS

[Jadykeery]

Dear Shri KRS,

.... You did not say, let us look at this phenomenon with an open mind - your mind refuses to accept anything beyond the currently known physical science.

Well, it is true that I have closed my mind about certain things, but I disagree that it was never open.

It is also presented as though the astrologers are not forthcoming to be subjected to any 'controlled study' of the discipline. Actually the issue is the reverse - no scientist wants to undertake such a study As one trained in science I am surprised you are saying this. Scientists are required to do nothing that does not interest them. It is up to the interested people to make it happen. With thousands of crores of rupees in their coffers, I don't know why one of the religious mathams that believe in this sort of thing fund such a study and show it to the skeptics that it really works.

, because there is apprehension on two fronts: 1. What if the study finds a correlation and 2. The reputation of such a scientist amongst the generally non believing, scientific community who do not believe in such 'superstitions'. They do not want to give any credence to the discipline, instead dismissing the discipline as 'not based on science'. I was trained as a scientist, so I know. Again, this is surprising coming from one trained as a scientist. Of course, the scientific community will reject unsubstantiated claims, like the one about Mayandi Swamigal, but if you demonstrate using valid statistical procedures and replicate it, people will take notice and it will no longer be mere superstition. But this can come only from true believers. A non-believer has two things going against him/her (i) proving a negative is impossible and (ii) even if they show it does not work in one study, the believers will go on believing, nothing will be achieved.

I know there was an adjustment made to the zodiac signs, but AFAIK, it was not about the validity or untenability of astrology in general.


He has already stated when he started this thread that he will account for certain things based on BELIEF. Yet you seem to think that it is wrong to write such stories. I think it is wrong to write them as facts.

Science has it's limitations. It is not a holy grail, and scientists are aware of this than anyone else. I have said this many times, science is not complete and it may never be complete. Taking a cue from Mahakavi, ஆயிரம் உண்டிங்கு சந்தேகம், எனில் மூடநம்பிக்கை ஆமோ விவேகம்.

I make a promise to you Shri KRS, if astrology or psychic power or any other supernatural claims is methodically shown to be true to the satisfaction of the scientific community, I will have no hesitation offering an unconditional apology to all of you and even support the advancement of these fields.

Cheers!

[resegooredo]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I don't want to hi-jack this thread to veer the discussions towards astrology, but I hope that he will see my response as a part of your discussions with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan on differences between 'Superstition' and the 'Truth'. My response is in 'blue' below.

Dear Shri KRS,

Well, it is true that I have closed my mind about certain things, but I disagree that it was never open.

As one trained in science I am surprised you are saying this. Scientists are required to do nothing that does not interest them. It is up to the interested people to make it happen. With thousands of crores of rupees in their coffers, I don't know why one of the religious mathams that believe in this sort of thing fund such a study and show it to the skeptics that it really works.
It is not about money - it isw about finding able researchers who can find peers to evaluate their research, and more importantly the ability to publish in reputed Scientific Journals.

Professor Mark Urban-Lurain teaches Statistical Mathematics. He wanted to do his research applying Statistics to Western Astrolgy, trying to find correlations. Guess what? It was not easy. Especially read his words on the fate of a couple of Professors who supported him. Please read the following speech by him:2005 Graduation - Speech by Mark Urban-Lurain: Kepler Graduates' Influence in Academia

Again, this is surprising coming from one trained as a scientist. Of course, the scientific community will reject unsubstantiated claims, like the one about Mayandi Swamigal, but if you demonstrate using valid statistical procedures and replicate it, people will take notice and it will no longer be mere superstition. But this can come only from true believers. A non-believer has two things going against him/her (i) proving a negative is impossible and (ii) even if they show it does not work in one study, the believers will go on believing, nothing will be achieved.
Careers are involved. Institutional mindset against anything unconventional comes in to play. Add to it the lack of tools to prove correlation. You should know these, as you are in Academics as well. Please read the presentations here given by the above cited professor:
https://www.msu.edu/~urban/kepler/sy...2001/index.htm

I know there was an adjustment made to the zodiac signs, but AFAIK, it was not about the validity or untenability of astrology in general.
The point is the 'scientific' person twisted the facts to sensationalize the hypothesis that Astrology is wrong. He did not know what he was talking about.


I think it is wrong to write them as facts.

and scientists are aware of this than anyone else. I have said this many times, science is not complete and it may never be complete. Taking a cue from Mahakavi, ஆயிரம் உண்டிங்கு சந்தேகம், எனில் மூடநம்பிக்கை ஆமோ விவேகம்.
The mistake you make is that an absence of scientific proof does not relegate something as 'superstition'. There are eye witness accounts as Sri Nacchinarkiniyan posted about a car not starting in a clearance in the middle of a forest. My own grandmother, who was exposed to a location where there were dead bodies, started speaking in fluent French (attested by those who knew French) that lasted for a while. She was barely literate. These are valid eye witness accounts. Now are these accounts false and the events did not happen, because Science can not explain them? I have studied and applied the vedic astrology principles to predict events in my life. It has been more than 60% accurate, I must say. About 15% of things I predicted were not accurate, it was due to timing (Events happened, but not in the time frame I predicted). This is called empirical evidence.

I really think that Science has an inbuilt prejudice against thease ancient disciplines, because they are now controlled by atheists who have no use for the idea that life is magic.


I make a promise to you Shri KRS, if astrology or psychic power or any other supernatural claims is methodically shown to be true to the satisfaction of the scientific community, I will have no hesitation offering an unconditional apology to all of you and even support the advancement of these fields.
Sorry to say this: Bah Humbug!


Cheers!

[chodeasyday]

Sorry to say this: Bah Humbug!

[Quonuttott]

Dear brother,

I did want to end my quote with smileys. But then I saw Sri Naacchinarkiniyan Ji posted a 'I like this post' for my post for the second time - he posted it on my original post, which I edited and he posted the same which was wiped out with my edit.

So on the second attempt I forgot to add the smileys. And when I again saw his endorsement, I did not want to put him through another cycle.

Yes, please add 10 smileys from me on that quote.

Regards,
KRS

[Pippoles]

...Yes, please add 10 smileys from me on that quote.

Are we on a smiley contest? Even here I have to bow to my older brother, if I put that many smileys, the site will reject my post.

Cheers!