[JoesBro]

Thanks Shri Anandji , for sharing this quote ! The following clearly explains one's path in the journey of LIFE ! Couldn't have been explained better , Great Upanishad excerpt !

And with all this sometimes I feel why people are so obstinate about what they have achieved in their present life's ??? They are not going to carry their cash balance with them for their next janma nor their intellect . I mean they have to learn A B C ... again in their next janma ( may be in a different language !).

So The Wise would lead a Happy Life , making other's Happy !

And I have a comment on the first half of your msg , wherein you had mentioned your suspicions that Self Help and Positive thinking books were just meant to make money . My view is " As the Human Brain is a powerful weapon ( missile ) by itself created by the supreme being , it needs to be a Guided missile ! or else the thoughts will wander ,creating chaos , which brings the need for YOGA , meditation etc , to control and streamline our thoughts to harness the best of our efforts !
Now for those who are lazy to practice YOGA the small quotes from SELF HELP books are appealing and bring about miracles .

.....

"You are what your deepest desire is;
As you desire, so is your intention;
As your intention, so is your will;
As is your will so is your deed;
As is your deed, so is your destiny"

.

[venediene]

The experiences of the jeeva during its lifetime are carried over to the next birth in the form of traces or impressions called Vasanas. The intentional acts performed by the jeeva also leave their residues which are known as anusayas. The vasanas and anusayas together determine the tendencies or predispositions of the jeeva at the moment of its next incarnation. These propensities of the jeeva are referred to as Samskara. This samskara shapes or influences the attitudes and actions of the jeeva during its entire lifespan.

The concept of Karma forms an integral part of Hinduism. The intentional acts performed by the jeeva produce a karma which has to be worked out sooner or later Good actions lead to rewards of happiness and prosperity while bad actions lead to punishment or suffering. The accumulated karmas acquired during one or more life-times may fall into one of three groups: 1) those that are determined at birth to be worked out in the present incarnation, which are called the Prarabda Karma. 2) those residues that remain latent, i.e., those karmas that are not yet mature or ready for fruition in this life, which are known as Sanchita Karma, and 3) the karmas performed during the present lifetime the consequences of which would have to be worked out in future births, which are referred to as Sanchiyamana karma or Agami karma.

When a person dies, his soul which is enveloped in a subtle body*(sukshma sarira) leaves the gross body carrying within itself in seed form (bija rupa) the sum-total of good and bad karma. It obtains another suitable body and is placed in circumstances which provide the necessary opportunities for it to work out its past karma.

Astrology gives an indication of our past Karma by pointing to the favourable and unfavourable placement and influence of the planets. We do not remember the past deeds we committed in our previous lives which determine the quality of our present existence. The horoscope gives a clue to the future which is a reflection of the past. This does not mean that we are bound by fate or destiny in the absolute sense. We have free will to chosse the reactions to the events of our lives. Vedanta exhorts us to use discrimination (viveka) between the eternal and the transient and advocates detatchment to worldly pleassures both here and hereafter.

From: Jyoutisha-Siddhanta-Sara by Rama A. Rao
From my understanding, the position of the planets or "fate" influences us and our surroundings. But our soul has free will. Free will is often misunderstood. It is not working hard to achieve one's materialistic goal.

Free will is deciding between good and evil. By doing the right thing, one improves his "karma". Karma is the eternal "strength" of our soul.

[banditorfv]

Dear all
First of all I thank all the leanered people who have posted their reply against my request for in respect of 'Destiny'.

Many people have given quotes from various scriptures. One has even suggested to read Bhagvat Gita several times. My question is very simple. The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma. I understand from the replies that one carry 'vasanas' of the previous birth to the new birth. Such being the case, even though one has the free will to act, he could not due to his 'vasanas' or the circumtances or environment on has be put in due to his previous 'karma'. For example, even in Bhavat Gita, all of your aware, that Arjuar refused to fight for the main reason that the oponents are none but their one relations. He said I don't want a kingdom by killing my own relations. However, Shri Krishna explained that all of them have already died and you are only duing your duty as a warrior. Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined. There may be some exceptions but exceptions are not examples.
Request your learned view on this.
Regards
Balachandran

[TZtrDuso]

Dear all
First of all I thank all the leanered people who have posted their reply against my request for in respect of 'Destiny'.

Many people have given quotes from various scriptures. One has even suggested to read Bhagvat Gita several times. My question is very simple. The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma. I understand from the replies that one carry 'vasanas' of the previous birth to the new birth. Such being the case, even though one has the free will to act, he could not due to his 'vasanas' or the circumtances or environment on has be put in due to his previous 'karma'. For example, even in Bhavat Gita, all of your aware, that Arjuar refused to fight for the main reason that the oponents are none but their one relations. He said I don't want a kingdom by killing my own relations. However, Shri Krishna explained that all of them have already died and you are only duing your duty as a warrior. Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined. There may be some exceptions but exceptions are not examples.
Request your learned view on this.
Regards
Balachandran

No.Vasanas cannot decide our actions,at best they stimulate our senses which has to be overcome by reasoning.Fate is the result of actions determined by our free will.Where any karma is done with a sense of duty as imposed by shastras does not result in Karma if the fruits are dedicated to the Lord

[animilius]

Fate or freewill – this question is at least as old as Thirukkural. Thiruvalluvar has presented two diametrically opposite views on this and he has left it to our wisdom to decide which one is correct.

ஊழிற் பெருவலி யாவுள மற்றொன்று
சூழினும் தான் முந்துறும்.

ஊழையும் உப்பக்கம்காண்பர் உலைவின்றித்
தாழாது உஞற்றுபவர்

In the first, he says that fate is invincible. In the second, he says that an industrious man can even pierce through fate,

Now let us turn to the Vedas. As far as I know, there is no mention of fate or karma or previous birth in the early part of the Vedas. It came into our scriptures only after non-vedic religions, Jainism and Buddhism, spread.

[griddle]

Now let us turn to the Vedas. As far as I know, there is no mention of fate or karma or previous birth in the early part of the Vedas. It came into our scriptures only after non-vedic religions, Jainism and Buddhism, spread.

Vedas, Upanishads and the Bhagavad Githa are the 'Prasthana Thrayam', for inquiry into the Brahman. All are shruthis, and BG mentions about reincarnation and karma.

[margoaroyo]

Dear all
First of all I thank all the leanered people who have posted their reply against my request for in respect of 'Destiny'.

Many people have given quotes from various scriptures. One has even suggested to read Bhagvat Gita several times. My question is very simple. The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma. I understand from the replies that one carry 'vasanas' of the previous birth to the new birth. Such being the case, even though one has the free will to act, he could not due to his 'vasanas' or the circumtances or environment on has be put in due to his previous 'karma'. For example, even in Bhavat Gita, all of your aware, that Arjuar refused to fight for the main reason that the oponents are none but their one relations. He said I don't want a kingdom by killing my own relations. However, Shri Krishna explained that all of them have already died and you are only duing your duty as a warrior. Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined. There may be some exceptions but exceptions are not examples.
Request your learned view on this.
Regards
Balachandran

Just a few words on the highlighted sentences. Here, the context is that Krishna is comparing the purity of mind and soul. The comparison here is metaphorical and does not mean that they had physically died. The Kauravas were full of hatred, jealousy and greed which had clouded their intellect. A person without a proper intellect is a waste. And hence, the Kauvaravas had already (mind and soul) died as a result of such influences.

Then he goes on further to point out the uniqueness of a soul and how the soul is not destroyed and so on...

Even after listening to Krishna, Arjuna still had the option not to fight, but he was convinced and hence he chose to fight.

BTW, what do you mean by acting independently here??

[fajerdoksdsaaker]

[...]Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined.

Hello!

Free choice is a truly intriguing question. All religious traditions have wrestled with this question. Why would a benevolent god give free choice to humans and let them make bad choices and suffer as a consequence? This is a particularly nagging question if God is portrayed as Father. No father would give his child free choice to get hurt.

It is somewhat easier for hinduism to deal with this question because of the theory of Karma and reincarnation. In Srimat Bhagavat Geetha, Verse 18.14, Lord Sri Krishna declares that there are five agencies for all action, namely, (i) body, (ii) jivan, (iii) gross and subtle senses (karma/jnana indriyam), (iv) life force (prAnan/apAnan), and (v) God.

The commentary by Bhagavat Ramanuja and a gloss for it by Swami Sri Desikan contend that the Bhagavan has empowered the Jivan with "swathanthriyam" independence of action. The jivan does have independence that it is limited to just 1/5th of the causes. Then, they go on to assert that the effect of karma can be prevented if one realizes this and performs all actions with what is called "sAthvIka thyAgam".

Anyway, all this is a lot of mumbo-jumbo. It is due to randomness of events one is faced with different situations. Our genes play a lot of part in the choices we make. At the subatomic particles level who is to say who has what choice. QED!

Cheers!

[janeseymore09092]

good subject very worthy to reflect upon. There are varied opinions among spiritual masters of today. But having experienced life in its own way vis a vis my efforts I can vouch there is something beyond our control happening to us every second. Simply being in the flow and rendering the best by being in the presence is what one can do and I think this is the the only path to lead our life till our last breat out. Let us respect that which spins around and within us.

[VarenHokalos]

The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma. I have done a research into this. I asked my astrologer, (a very talented person in his knowledge) whether it is possible to fix a time for a person's birth predetermined by Jyoutisha so that that child is born at a very favourable time and that child can have a very good fortune. For this he replied that a few people contacted him regarding this matter, and he did fix a good time for birth depending on his knowledge.

In each attempt, unfortunate events occurred like the power going off, doctors getting emergency calls and so on. This was a very interesting phenomenon i learnt in my research.


In Rama avatar, Lord Ram was born in a particular time which was predetermined such that circumstances would eventually lead him to destroy Ravana. During the war, Ravana learnt that the positions of the planets are not favorable to him and he eventually will be destroyed. For this he captured the planets and attempted to re position them, which was interrupted by Lord Hanuman and the planets were released. Hence Ravana was unable to change his fate and was killed by Lord Ram.

More details on fate and destiny is explained in my Research work here which explains are we really in control of our lives.

Mind Control and Aliens the Suppressed Knowledge

[JeffStewart]

To me, the exact date and time of birth of a human being is the actual moment at which the zygotic communion/conception occurs. It is almost impossible to fix the correct time- hours, minutes and seconds and sometimes, date too. Therefore, horoscopes based on the delivery time of a child are not a correct reflection of the planetary positions of an individual.

Moreover, neither jyodhisham nor psychology nor human physiology has found an answer to the question "Why all the children born at the same time - date, hours,
minutes and seconds - do not share the same/common destiny?"

Fixing a suitable date and time for delivery of a child is interfering with Nature and is most ridiculous. A man cannot alter the planetary positions to suit his convenience. If that is possible, not just for delivery, for each and every conceivable situation or need, that can be attempted. Will that yield the desired results 100% ?

[beriarele]

It is almost impossible to fix the correct time- hours, minutes and seconds and sometimes, date too. Therefore, horoscopes based on the delivery time of a child are not a correct reflection of the planetary positions of an individual. Though i am not a professional Astrologer, i can address this. The exact time is the time the planets and the celestials happen to see the child completely. I suppose this is the time reported by most people for the time of birth, when the child is fully outside. However, minor changes in times of birth, like a few minutes or one hour does not impact major changes unless there is a significant change in the position of the celestials. This is of course an approximation, and errors does arise out of this.

Moreover, neither jyodhisham nor psychology nor human physiology has found an answer to the question "Why all the children born at the same time - date, hours,
minutes and seconds - do not share the same/common destiny?" The place of birth is also taken into consideration while drawing the astrological chart of a person. Also i have seen twins who are born in a few minutes difference share common life in childhood and also their lives are similar. Although those born with significant time difference have seperated destinies.


Psychology, on the other hand does not depend upon the position of the planets. Although it is possible to predict a person's psychology based on the position of the planets. If the position of the planets is giving bad influence, then that person may have a bad Karma and hence his psychology to the reaction of his destiny can be ascertained since it would obviously be a bad attitude.

Although we see in newspapers grouping people on Rashis and predicting their psychology, they are barely true since in depth analysis is not done.

Psychology is our reaction to our fate. Like i said before, there are only two reactions, good or bad which leads to Dharma or Adharma, that inturn derives the karma.

[YTmWSOA5]

Even amongst identical twins, I have noticed both agreeing behaviour patterns and
disagreeing/different behaviour patterns.

Their interests, education, career path, social status and even lifestyle, peace and happiness and health are found to be different in many, many cases (I don't say majority of the cases). How would one explain this?

[Johnny]

Even amongst identical twins, I have noticed both agreeing behaviour patterns and
disagreeing/different behaviour patterns.

Their interests, education, career path, social status and even lifestyle,peace and happiness and health are found to be different in many, many cases (I don't say majority of the cases). How would one explain this? Please be adviced i am not debating, i am posting my views. So far i have seen at least the cases i encountered (considering twins is a rare phenomenon which is not encountered very often) have identical lives and those who do not can be explained that their times of birth had planetary shifts and as it is, they are seperate souls and their psychology differs. Also when they get married to different people of different horoscopes, then that will have some major impact on their course of life.

My interest into Jyoutisha springs from the fact that it clearly adopts the planets and their movements thousands of years back, at least from the time before Western science established the official structure of our solar system. Although Jyoutisha may not yield any profit, it can help lead a peaceful life free of worries and avoid blunders. Another part of my research was to take two horoscopes of a couple who are recently married and the man already committed suicide. I asked my astrologer to match them. He predicted that the man cannot be trusted and the girl should not marry the man. Also he adviced for the girl to go to a temple and offer some puja to counter what he called "mangalya dosham".

I do agree there are astrologers who cheat people to get money and tell them the wrong things which is really MISLEADING. Only a few Astrologers are really talented and honest in this field. I beleive Jyoutisha cannot create any miracles, but life as it is can be lived in a peaceful manner. From my personal side, i have made significant choices in life in a smart manner using Jyoutisha and avoided making huge blunders.

[icerrelmCam]

Sadly, in the field of jyodhisham or fore-telling, many novices, crooks, cheats and tricksters have entered. They vastly outnumber the genuine ones. This has put a big question mark about the credibility of the field itself.

Consider these points.

1. Those who were very adept and successful in prophecy, slowly begin to believe
themselves since whatever happens could be predicted by them in advance with
precision, whatever told by them will certainly occur. Here starts the downfall of
their career.

2. Next stage is, since they are able to control the others' lives (at least they
believe so) they possess occult powers and in a way, they are also God.

3. The final stage is, they proclaim themselves as "the God".

4. The success of jyodhisham lies in the inherent curiosity in every human being to
know one's future, despite the fact that all that was predicted in the past did not
happen.

5. Those do not exhibit self-confidence, those are in miseries, those who strongly
believe that they are the only ones suffering this world, those who think the
causes for their failures, sorrow and hardship are always external seek refuge in
and solutions from jyodhisham.

6. If I can withstand the influence and pressure from the close and nearby people,
can not I do the same in respect of planets which lie at thousands of kilometers
away from me?

7. Finally, I believe in Thiru Gnana Sambandar's 'Kolaru pathigam'. In a similar vein,
in "Yaadhum Oore, Yavarum Kelir", the next line 'theedhum, nandrum pirar thara
varaa' has impressed me much. I learnt to assume responsibility for whatever I
do.

So, let us continue this debate further.

[Shemker394]

To find a genuine astrologer is pretty simple. If the astrologer predicts our past accurately, then he could be considered skilled and talented. Learning how he predicts the life of those of our relatives whom we know closely also will help us know his skills. Like I said before taking the horoscopes of marriages that has recently gone bad and seeing how the astrologer matches them is also a good method. Also before that if an astrologer is skillful, we can get to know by his fame through friends, relatives, etc. An astrologer who is simple and with lot of knowledge in Sanskrit (mostly Brahmins learn Sanskrit) and all the Hindu Scriptures in detail including the law of existence according to Hinduism, the one who is spiritual, will be talented in this field.

A true astrologer will know very well he does not control anyone’s life. He is only a guide and the planets guide him in his predictions. When he knows Hinduism very well, he will know that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the ones in control, so he cannot consider himself as God, he will bend before our Gods.

The ones who are interested in Jyoutish should also research into our Hindu scriptures and our Gods before blindly believing in future predictions. Jyoutish cannot create miracles or fortune. It is a way to analyze our life and avoid blunders, thereby living a peaceful life. The book Jyoutisha Siddhanta Sara gives an explanation of existence and Karma. (It can be downloaded from rapidshare for free) Once we realize the nature of eternal soul, then all worries vanish. Death will not be anything new, so this is true confidence, actually the self-confidence one has in his body mind system is fake. Death can catch us anytime or nothing is permanent (and today one cant trust his own wife or children). Only Karma is permanent. With this we will follow the path of dharma in every act.

When we find an astrologer who is skillful and talented, that is the time we will really realise that whatever told in the Hindu Scriptues(that which has no date of origin) is correct. Then we do not believe in the astrologer, rather we are learning our own life through him, he is like a doctor or so and the karma is our health. Like I said if an astrologer had predicted the misery that has already occurred, then he could predict our miseries that are yet to occur. There are various remedies like Worshipping specific Gods for every misfortune (Hanuman, Muruga, Ayyappa, etc) and the skillful astrologer who knows our Gods will correctly advice the remedy. WITH THIS DONE, WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FEAR AT ALL. This is real CONFIDENCE and we can face what we already know would be easy or difficult.

Unfortunately this will only be available to a Hindu, unless that person learns the Hindu way of life and other ways of life are very far from Hinduism. This is another way to estimate an astrologer’s skills, a genuine one will never talk about Secularism.

I do know the modern philosophy with the influence of modern Religions all stress on self confidence and individual effort, but this way of life takes us far, far from spirituality due to the build up of unnecessary stress and panic.

[sztc38tg]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers?

[Byxtysaaqwuz]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers?

Absolutely right!

But surrender should be complete, not just in words. Most try to surrender, but are swept away by the vagaries of life. Hence, astrology might help such lesser mortals to safeguard their interests.

Shri Rama has said - 'Maam Ekam Saranam Vraja'. How many of us do a complete surrender. It means we have to just do our duty and try to mitigate karmaphalas. Any good that comes as a result of our actions have to be considered as Bhagavath Prasada.

Are we really into such a mould?

[perpelverw]

The process of surrender is not a one shot affair. It is a coninuous process with no looking back. Any vaccilation, despair or despondency shall not be allowed to envelope the person attempting such surrender.

Those who surrender themselves to the Almighty will continue to be humble, mature and will take whatever comes their way. They neither grudge nor rejoice. But, the kind of equipoise suggested by Lord Krishna is not that easy for every one. Yet, it is not out of reach too!

[PharmaDrMan]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers? This is true but if one has to “truly” surrender, then one has to forsake all life, become a sanyasi and sit and do tapas. In my opinion, this way of life is complete surrendering to our Gods.

Because, we in reality are not doing that. We are living a normal life. When we live normal life, we are bound to Karma. We have to earn money to make a living. We are supporting those who are close to us. By this way of life, surrendering to “Almighty” has little or no meaning in reality.

I do agree Devi Parasakti takes care of us.

If we look our history, Lord Vishnu teaches us to live the correct way of life in Rama Avatar. In his life as a human, he has to do his duties. Even Lord Ram, being a God, he required powers to defeat adharma. Same is the case with Krishna avatar. He offers Worship to Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvathi. At one point he had to cure his brother Lakshman, where he asks Lord Hanuman to get the herb from Sanjeevi Mountain. He is not “surrendering to the almighty” because he has to do his duties. I suppose this “surrendering to the almighty” was taught in the Christian Religion (to make us surrender into the mind control saga of the aliens, about which my research is all about). I have not come across any Hindu scripture which says this phrase.

A genuine Brahmin has to have knowledge of the Vedas and the other Hindus learn from him the Hindu way of life. This is what Hinduism is all about, Pure Knowledge.

Vedic astrology or Jyotish is the foremost of the six Vedangas or 'limbs of the Veda'. It is said to be the 'eye of the Veda' through which all Vedic knowledge can be properly applied. Ayurveda is the foremost of the four Upavedas or 'secondary Vedas' through which a true Vedic life can be properly lived. Ayurveda and Vedic astrology are closely intertwined not only with each other but with all other Vedic sci­ences, including the great wisdom traditions of Yoga and Vedanta and their profound paths of Self-realization and God-realization.


Ayurvedic Astrololy