[Faumpiggueria]

aww, as u all scholars will be aware a bedouin once came to the prophet saw and asked around 25 questions e.g i want to be rich? i want to be the most knowledgable? etc i have heard this hadith in MTJ bayan and i have to whole hadith in urdu but im struggling to find the arabic for it, as far as i know th hadith is definately in kanzul ummal and musnad ahmed i have serached both but to no avail does anyone have the reference for it? as in which chapter the hadith in? volume etc?

[gDGwm8BC]

It isn't in Musnad Ahmed, only in Kanz al-Ummal.
There is no chain for the narration and all the signs of fabrication are clear on it.

[Ruilnasr]

so in which chapter of kanzul umaal is it in?

[Gintovtosik]

It isn't in Musnad Ahmed, only in Kanz al-Ummal.
There is no chain for the narration and all the signs of fabrication are clear on it.

What is Kanz al-Ummal is it a collection of hadeeth like other famous books? And are hadeeth in this book weaker then other books of hadeeth?

[JeremyBalll]

Thank you very much Mufti Husain (hafizakAllah) wa JazakAllahu khayra. This hadith is so widespread that many (like me) considered it nearly as authentic. Then I was told this hadith is apparently narrated by Khalid bin Walid whereas his narrations in Musnad Ahmed are known, and this "hadith" is not part of them.

Anyways that is a good information to know, you've spared the time of AskImam cause I was gonna ask them the refernce of this .

[tattcasetle]

Thank you very much Mufti Husain (hafizakAllah) wa JazakAllahu khayra. This hadith is so widespread that many (like me) considered it nearly as authentic. Then I was told this hadith is apparently narrated by Khalid bin Walid whereas his narrations in Musnad Ahmed are known, and this "hadith" is not part of them.

Anyways that is a good information to know, you've spared the time of AskImam cause I was gonna ask them the refernce of this .

so just cause its not in musnad ahmed is that enough proof this hadith not authentic?

[bestworkothlo]

so just cause its not in musnad ahmed is that enough proof this hadith not authentic?

That isn't enough proof but Mufti Hussain saheb above has informed us that this hadith appears to be fabricated and has no chain of narration.

[Tndfpcin]

It isn't in Musnad Ahmed, only in Kanz al-Ummal.
There is no chain for the narration and all the signs of fabrication are clear on it.

ok scholars do we have proof from any mauzuaat kitab to say this hadith is fabricated ? ? ?

[Muhabsssa]

Anyways that is a good information to know, you've spared the time of AskImam cause I was gonna ask them the refernce of this .

Its still better, you can ask them,cause mufti saab doesn´t has always time.

[Xiciljed]

Kanz is a collection of ahadith without their chains, with references to books of hadith which mention chains for them.
A few ahadith are such that the author doesn't quote them from books mentioning their chains, instead he just mentions that they were found in so and so book.

This hadith is such an example.
Allamah Suyuti mentions that he found it in a collection of ahadith of al-Mustaghfiri, who heard this hadith from someone, but doesn't mention the chain.

As for the incorrect attribution to the Musnad of Imam Ahmed, it was due to the old copy of the Musnad having selections of Kanz printed in its margin.
So it seems that someone found the hadith in the margin and thought it is in the musnad, due to the copy of the book mentioning the musnad, when in reality it is from Kanz.

And as for the claim that we neeed to show which book of fabricated hadith mentioned this narration, it is the completely incorrect approach, based on ignorance of the field of hadith.

In order for someone to atttribute a saying to Nabi they are required to produce the chain for it. Until then, their attribution is worthless.
Those opposing them aren't required to prove it to be fabricated, rather those quoting it have to prove its authenticity.

To understand, if someone claimed that Nabi mentioned forums to be haram!
If we ask him for the proof, he could claim that it is mentioned in hadith, even though he doesn't have a chain for it and that if you oppose him, please show which book of fabricated ahadith classified it as a fabrication!

What would be a suitable reply to such an ignoramous?

[MizzDaizzy]

In order for someone to atttribute a saying to Nabi they are required to produce the chain for it. Until then, their attribution is worthless.
Those opposing them aren't required to prove it to be fabricated, rather those quoting it have to prove its authenticity.

To understand, if someone claimed that Nabi mentioned forums to be haram!
If we ask him for the proof, he could claim that it is mentioned in hadith, even though he doesn't have a chain for it and that if you oppose him, please show which book of fabricated ahadith classified it as a fabrication!

What would be a suitable reply to such an ignoramous?

Assalamualaikum mufti saab,

Isn´t same case happened in fazaile amal a few time, where sheikh self says: i didn´t find the hadith´s chain by myself but it is in this and that book. Where was the need to mention such doubtful hadith?

[goatteatromiag]

Kanz is a collection of ahadith without their chains, with references to books of hadith which mention chains for them.
A few ahadith are such that the author doesn't quote them from books mentioning their chains, instead he just mentions that they were found in so and so book.

This hadith is such an example.
Allamah Suyuti mentions that he found it in a collection of ahadith of al-Mustaghfiri, who heard this hadith from someone, but doesn't mention the chain.

As for the incorrect attribution to the Musnad of Imam Ahmed, it was due to the old copy of the Musnad having selections of Kanz printed in its margin.
So it seems that someone found the hadith in the margin and thought it is in the musnad, due to the copy of the book mentioning the musnad, when in reality it is from Kanz.

And as for the claim that we neeed to show which book of fabricated hadith mentioned this narration, it is the completely incorrect approach, based on ignorance of the field of hadith.

In order for someone to atttribute a saying to Nabi they are required to produce the chain for it. Until then, their attribution is worthless.
Those opposing them aren't required to prove it to be fabricated, rather those quoting it have to prove its authenticity.

To understand, if someone claimed that Nabi mentioned forums to be haram!
If we ask him for the proof, he could claim that it is mentioned in hadith, even though he doesn't have a chain for it and that if you oppose him, please show which book of fabricated ahadith classified it as a fabrication!

What would be a suitable reply to such an ignoramous?

mashallah brilliant answer mufti thats what i was looking for, allah give u long life and more knowledge ameen

[OEMCHEAPSOFTDOWNLOAD]

aww, as u all scholars will be aware a bedouin once came to the prophet saw and asked around 25 questions e.g i want to be rich? i want to be the most knowledgable? etc i have heard this hadith in MTJ bayan and i have to whole hadith in urdu but im struggling to find the arabic for it, as far as i know th hadith is definately in kanzul ummal and musnad ahmed i have serached both but to no avail does anyone have the reference for it? as in which chapter the hadith in? volume etc?

ASWW
Brother would you be able to put up the Urdu one for me. I need it for an Aalim who wants to check it.
Jzk
I need this urgently please! Jzzzzzzk!

[mygalinasoo]

ASWW
Need this urgently please