[treawittelf]

As-salamu alaykum.

I have some questions related to backbiting/ghibat.

To start, I am aware of how emphatically backbiting is denounced in Islam.

Sahih International [49:12]
O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do you know what is backbiting? They (the Companions) said: Allah and His Messenger know best. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Backbiting implies your talking about your brother in a manner which he does not like. It was said to him: What is your opinion about this that if I actually find (that failing) in my brother which I made a mention of? He said: If (that failing) is actually found (in him) what you assert, you in fact backbited him, and if that is not in him it is a slander.

Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Chapter 18, Number 6265

It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: He who believes in Allah and the Last Day should either utter good words or better keep silence...

Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0075

My questions are as follows.

1) Is it considered (sinful) backbiting to tell someone about the sin of a person who openly boasts about their sin (a faasiq)? I have come across the Hadith below which I have seen some use as evidence that (sinful) backbiting does not apply to the sins of someone who sins openly.

Narated By Anas : A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and the people praised the deceased. The Prophet said, "It has been affirmed (Paradise)." Then another funeral procession passed by and the people talked badly of the deceased. The Prophet said, "It has been affirmed (Hell)." Allah's Apostle was asked, "O Allah's Apostle! You said it has been affirmed for both?" The Prophet said, "The testimony of the people (is accepted), (for) the believer are Allah's witnesses on the earth."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 048, Hadith Number 810

Is it correct that the sin of backbiting does not apply to the sins of one who sins openly? Even if that is the case, doesn't go against the general advice from the Hadith I quoted earlier that a Muslim should remain silent if he has nothing good to say?

2) If one were comparing two people about to engage in an athletic competition, for example, wrestling, would it be considered backbiting if people were attempting to predict the outcome of the match by comparing the two competitors and making statements such as, "Participant A will win because he is stronger and faster than Participant B?" Surely, one of the two people would not like hearing to hear those things when present, so would it be considered backbiting?

I came across a scholarly opinion on the subject of backbiting and read it before I made this thread, but it may be helpful to anyone who reads this thread (and perhaps those who attempt to answer my questions) because it's very possible that they may notice or understand something in the discussion that I didn't. The link is below.

The Rules of Backbiting
http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?id=212

JazakAllahu Khayran for all of your help.

[QXCharles]

As-salamu alaykum.

I have some questions related to backbiting/ghibat.

To start, I am aware of how emphatically backbiting is denounced in Islam.







My questions are as follows.

1) Is it considered (sinful) backbiting to tell someone about the sin of a person who openly boasts about their sin (a faasiq)? I have come across the Hadith below which I have seen some use as evidence that (sinful) backbiting does not apply to the sins of someone who sins openly.


Is it correct that the sin of backbiting does not apply to the sins of one who sins openly? Even if that is the case, doesn't go against the general advice from the Hadith I quoted earlier that a Muslim should remain silent if he has nothing good to say?

2) If one were comparing two people about to engage in an athletic competition, for example, wrestling, would it be considered backbiting if people were attempting to predict the outcome of the match by comparing the two competitors and making statements such as, "Participant A will win because he is stronger and faster than Participant B?" Surely, one of the two people would not like hearing to hear those things when present, so would it be considered backbiting?

I came across a scholarly opinion on the subject of backbiting and read it before I made this thread, but it may be helpful to anyone who reads this thread (and perhaps those who attempt to answer my questions) because it's very possible that they may notice or understand something in the discussion that I didn't. The link is below.

The Rules of Backbiting
http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?id=212

JazakAllahu Khayran for all of your help.

Your first question has been answered in the link you provided:
cases in which ghibah is permissible:
Someone who sins openly, and has no qualms about his sins being mentioned.
However, it is not permissible to mention any of his secret sins.

"There can be no backbiting of one who casts off the mantle of modesty." [Suyuti, Al-Jami` As-Saghir, 2/519, from Bayhaqi.]


As for you're second question, wait for some knowledgeable brothers who might be able to answer it.

[suidinguilelf]

^That makes it clear that it is not considered backbiting, but does that necessarily mean it's okay to bring the sins of an open sinner up in conversation if it is for no beneficial purpose and simply done to look down on the open sinner?

[metrocartockasur]

^That makes it clear that it is not considered backbiting, but does that necessarily mean it's okay to bring the sins of an open sinner up in conversation if it is for no beneficial purpose and simply done to look down on the open sinner?

There are pleasant actions of obedience and there are unpleasant actions of, again obedience.
It is pleasant to prostrate before Allah (SWT).
It is not pleasant to indulge in act of cleaning after going to WC.
Talking about someone's sin, when he or she is a sinner, is not a pleasant thing to do.
We believers are supposed to change a bad thing by action, by words or in our hearts.
A sin is a bad action.
Companions (RA) too physical action against people not paying Zakat.

I hope it clarifies the matter a little bit. And Allah (SWT) knows better.

PS : Looking down upon a sinner is an additional act. This is not appreciated in Islam.

[Dweplyododo]

11 Places where Geebat is allow(jaiz) - According to Allahma Shami ra
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...lahma-Shami-ra

prof.maripat sir
can u plz translate it?

[Finkevannon]

Allamah Shami has listed 11 instances where criticism does not qualify at Gheebah.
(1) To relate some ones mistake in the vein of regret.
(2) To relate the overall shortcomings of a settlement.
(3) To relate the activities of an open sinner
(4) To relate the deviant beliefs of a deviant to warn the common people
(5) To relate the excess of a wrong doer in front of authority to just ends
(6) To report short coming to an authority capable to stop the wrong
(7) To relate shortcoming of a party in matters of possible future marital alliance
(8) To relate the correct situation while seeking a Fatwah from a Mufti
(9) To relate the short coming of a slave to a possible buyer
(10) To call someone lame or blind for the purpose of introduction
(11) To relate about non-reliable Hadith narrators.

These 11 are not included in Gheebah. Even in these cases looking down upon a Muslim is strictly forbidden. (Ref ...)

[n2Oddw8P]

(3) To relate the activities of an open sinner

Would it follow that this should only be done if there is some benefit intended to result from relating said activities, or is it simply permissible to talk about the activities of an open sinner for no good reason?

[Zhgrlpil]

Would it follow that this should only be done if there is some benefit intended to result from relating said activities, or is it simply permissible to talk about the activities of an open sinner for no good reason?

To talk with no good reason is a sin in itself.
Let us separate that from the present discussion.

So let us take the situation where you get up and tell your friend that you got to buy milk from a particular shop.
Your friend says that do not do that - his milk is dilute. In this case your friend stands absolved of gheebah.

[GlictStiply]

So let us take the situation where you get up and tell your friend that you got to buy milk from a particular shop.
Your friend says that do not do that - his milk is dilute. In this case your friend stands absolved of gheebah.

This is what I've always understood.

To talk with no good reason is a sin in itself.
Let us separate that from the present discussion.

Thank you for pointing this out.

This thread was created by me me because I've tried to advise Muslims who are around me not to bring up that, "Person A is an admitted (insert some type of sinful lifestyle)" for no reason, but I did not have a solid basis upon which to give this advice, only what I have been taught by elders growing up.

[Caliwany]

This thread was created by me me because I've tried to advise Muslims who are around me not to bring up that, "Person A is an admitted (insert some type of sinful lifestyle)" for no reason, but I did not have a solid basis upon which to give this advice, only what I have been taught by elders growing up.

We have to train ourselves to be Muslims.
You are going through that.

In my immediate environment there is a person who lapses into Gheebah at the earliest opportunity.
One day few of us were sitting on a big table and some one one said some thing that was Gheebah of this person. Obviously he was not there. I just got up from my chair and sat on a different chair. The effect was a bit dramatic - everybody else too got up from the table. Clearly all of us were inherently aware that we were going to indulge in the same sin of which we have been accusing that person. This is the subtle Ahsaas that we have to clutch firmly if we want to protect our iman.

[feedcomnet]

^I think part of the problem is that in many societies in today's world, because it is popular to publish and broadcast sinful actions and lifestyles (both of others and of one's own self), Muslims forget that repeating these things (even if they are about non-Muslims) to others is also sinful. It goes back to why we are advised to avoid that which is is un-Islamic; even if we do not partake in un-Islamic things ourselves, being around them desensitizes us to how bad they are and often leads to our committing sins without thinking. May Allah protect us all.

[timgillmoreeztf]

We have to train ourselves to be Muslims.
You are going through that.

In my immediate environment there is a person who lapses into Gheebah at the earliest opportunity.
One day few of us were sitting on a big table and some one one said some thing that was Gheebah of this person. Obviously he was not there. I just got up from my chair and sat on a different chair. The effect was a bit dramatic - everybody else too got up from the table. Clearly all of us were inherently aware that we were going to indulge in the same sin of which we have been accusing that person. This is the subtle Ahsaas that we have to clutch firmly if we want to protect our iman.

You, my friend, have good company.

Another thing you can do to prevent gheebah is to quickly change the topic. I've tried it a few times, it works.