[opdirorg]

Under which surah and ayat is this written? Im asking because Im not reading of the pdf version so our pages will be differently numbered.



I was wondering the same thing. Although it makes sense that this would be talking about the shariah of the previous Prophets. Can anyone confirm?

2:116-117 In the English translation it is not clear if he is speaking of the shari'ah of past prophets here or not.

Take a look also at 2:196-203 "Some commentators have explained this verse by dwelling upon the analogy of 'father' used here, in some detail. They say that one should remember Allah as one remembered his father during his childhood when he was dependant on his father for everything."



Since I am only in volume 1 of maariful (surah 2), I'll be sure to let you know if I find any other "father" references to God in the remaining 7 volumes.... or you could just keep an eye on my blog! (Sorry, I had to give a plug for my blog. Haha)

[BlackBird]

brothers, I'm pretty sure it means past prophets too (given the context) but insha'Allah I would like to get it confirmed if correct and corrected if wrong.

@ Pouring Rain: when you first read it, did you take it to mean past prophets too?

[edit: @Pouring Rain: one more nosy question if you don't mind (ignore the q if you do mind and I'll delete shortly). Perhaps someone has already asked you but have you considered doing an in-depth reading of the Qur'an with a Muslim scholar? I don't mean to imply scholars have infinite amounts of time and should be able to accommodate everyone/such individual requests but perhaps if it was possible to arrange a small group reading with a Muslim scholar (even better if the scholar is as familiar with Christianity and Judaism as you are) it would be helpful... I don't know if any exist in your area but the US certainly has a healthy share of Muslim scholars masha'Allah.]

[corkBrobe]

brothers, I'm pretty sure it means past prophets too (given the context) but insha'Allah I would like to get it confirmed if correct and corrected if wrong.

Shari'ah is used to refer to either the laws that were given to the previous Ambiya 'Alaihimus salam or the complete law (Islam) that was given to Rasulullah . Here's one link that explains:


http://www.sunnipath.com/Library/Art...R00000256.aspx



You can also check the tafsir in Ma'ariful Qur'an of the 48th verse in Surah Ma'idah. (page 181 from the book)

http://islamicstudies.info/maarif/

[moopogyOvenny]

brother, may Allah reward you abundantly for your help.

[HenriRow]

brothers, I'm pretty sure it means past prophets too (given the context) but insha'Allah I would like to get it confirmed if correct and corrected if wrong.

@ Pouring Rain: when you first read it, did you take it to mean past prophets too?

[edit: @Pouring Rain: one more nosy question if you don't mind (ignore the q if you do mind and I'll delete shortly). Perhaps someone has already asked you but have you considered doing an in-depth reading of the Qur'an with a Muslim scholar? I don't mean to imply scholars have infinite amounts of time and should be able to accommodate everyone/such individual requests but perhaps if it was possible to arrange a small group reading with a Muslim scholar (even better if the scholar is as familiar with Christianity and Judaism as you are) it would be helpful... I don't know if any exist in your area but the US certainly has a healthy share of Muslim scholars masha'Allah.]

When I first read it, I didn't take it to mean past prophet's shari'ah. I thought he was speaking of possibly an early Islamic shari'ah.

Sometimes in the English tafsir he is more specific and will say "Islamic sharia'ah" or the "shari'ah of earlier prophets," "all the shari'ahs agreed," or it will be more clear in context such as "the sunnah and the shari'ah" or "the tafsir and shari'ah."

In this particular case he says "earlier shari'ahs" which could indicate earlier than Islam (the shari'ah of previous prophets) or it could also indicate earlier islamic shari'ahs. There are instances where he speaks about things that were permissible in early Islam, but were changed due to misunderstandings, abuse, or other reasons. This could be one of those.

One thing that I like about when he speaks about Christians and Jews is that he refers to the beliefs that certain sects of Christians and Jews held in that area, at that time of Mohammed. I think it is an important distinction to make, and he does well in doing this. One reason it is important is because it is common to find a belief listed that is not a predominant belief of a majority of Jews or Christians. (Although, I will say that some are quite common beliefs even today in many sects.) So, I am glad that he makes that distinction that these were beliefs of the people in that specific area, at that specific time.

Regarding our original discussion, I also understood it to be possibly early Islamic shari'ah, because of Yusuf Ali stating a similar point in his commentary (I know may people disagree with Yusuf Ali), and also other places like the second I listed above where God as a father type is discussed.

Regarding your second question, Acacia, there are no scholars in my area. There is no masjid either. The closest are 3-4 hours away. I would love to be able to discuss many things with a scholar. On-line and in books I find so many mixed opinions on matters.

[RonPeeredob]

@ Pouring Rain - thanks for answering. I'm sure you must've exhausted all possibilities but I do wonder if there are any online groups in the US that would serve the same function? If not... there ought to be. Many people would benefit... including myself insha'Allah.

As for the wording in the commentaries - I think it is important (especially perhaps for Christians who may be learning about this through this forum and other avenues) but it is sufficient for a Muslim to know that it is not permitted and not delve into the matter beyond that. In other words, it does not make a difference for a Muslim's imaan to know exactly when it was taken out of use however, it might make a difference for a Christian.

[TeftyJokip]

@ Pouring Rain - thanks for answering. I'm sure you must've exhausted all possibilities but I do wonder if there are any online groups in the US that would serve the same function? If not... there ought to be. Many people would benefit... including myself insha'Allah.

If you ever hear of any, let me know.

As for the wording in the commentaries - I think it is important (especially perhaps for Christians who may be learning about this through this forum and other avenues) but it is sufficient for a Muslim to know that it is not permitted and not delve into the matter beyond that. In other words, it does not make a difference for a Muslim's imaan to know exactly when it was taken out of use however, it might make a difference for a Christian.

I do understand this. Maariful reaches points all the time where it will state that it is best not to pursue the matter, nor to delve into it any further. I do recognize that there are many things that are unknowable to us, and on a personal level I understand that I will never know all things. As a researcher, my quest is eternally to seek an understanding of the unknown. I am perfectly content to not know the answers. The process, or the quest, is often more important to me than reaching a specific destination (i.e. a specific answer).

[iklostardinn]

The way I see it, the problem is not in seeking knowledge, as that is the goal of each and every one of us; the problem is in wavering, doubting, looking elsewhere, dabbling here and there, trying to merge everything, seeking commonalities, highlighting differences... in other words, simply not being content with the whole of what was given such that there is no room for further evaluation and analysis. Otherwise, I'm afraid something other than what was intended for us (Islam) emerges and that is misleading and erroneous.

Alhamdulillah for this thread and our communications here because, as a person who has always fared better with application than with theory, after reading some discrepancies in the older Yusuf Ali translation that made me worried and then noticing how the translation leaves some crucial lines quite blurred, I now finally get why the Yusuf Ali translation is not ideal.

Oh, how I wish I understood Arabic!

[Mmzmptvk]

The way I see it, the problem is not in seeking knowledge, as that is the goal of each and every one of us; the problem is in wavering, doubting, looking elsewhere, dabbling here and there, trying to merge everything, seeking commonalities, highlighting differences... in other words, simply not being content with the whole of what was given such that there is no room for further evaluation and analysis. Otherwise, I'm afraid something other than what was intended for us (Islam) emerges and that is misleading and erroneous.

I don't see the things you mentioned as being problems within themselves. Without doubts, there would be no reverts to Islam. (By the same token, doubts also take people out of the fold of Islam.) In itself, doubting is not a problem. Doubts lead to questions, which lead to truths. It is through wavering, doubts, looking elsewhere, etc. that we learn and grow. From my understanding, your concern is that these things may lead people away from Islam. But these same things are also what lead people to Islam.

When it comes to seeking commonalities and highlighting differences, I think those things are unavoidable. There was a thread posted on the forum recently that discussed the "hand of God" from Christian, Jewish, and Islamic viewpoints. The intent of the thread was to point out the differences between how Christians and Jews view God's hand and how Muslims view (or should view) God's hand. I did not respond to that thread, although I contemplated doing so for a long time. My response would have been that I am glad to see that the manner that Muslims should understand "god's hand" is the same manner in which Christians and Jews should. The author of the post saw differences, while I saw the commonality. The problem was not the way each actually view God's hand, or should view God's hand, the problem was in how each perceives that the other is viewing this.

Let me provide another example along the same lines that I have mentioned before. On a Christian forum, there was an individual who commented that a missionary to a Muslim country came back and reported that Muslims women say that they wear hijab because of shame. The error was a miscommunication/ misunderstanding. The missionary heard that Muslim women have shame, whereas the Muslim women were speaking of shame in the context of modesty, similar to in the Bible where women are instructed to be "shamefaced" (modest). The Christian missionary only saw differences between Christians and Muslims, when the truth is that the concept is one that is shared within the two religions.

Alhamdulillah for this thread and our communications here because, as a person who has always fared better with application than with theory, after reading some discrepancies in the older Yusuf Ali translation that made me worried and then noticing how the translation leaves some crucial lines quite blurred, I now finally get why the Yusuf Ali translation is not ideal.

Oh, how I wish I understood Arabic!

Is it his translation that you have a problem with, or is it his commentary? Would you share which things bother you? I made a thread on Yusuf Ali, if you want to post there so that this one doesn't take a new goat path. I would love to hear your opinions and thoughts!

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...li-Translation

[hasasnn2345tv]

"I am a servant of Allah. He will reveal the Book to me and make me a prophet. He blessed me wherever I am. In the rules revealed to me there will be a special attention given to prayers and charity. Allah predestined that I will be kind to my mother and not a tyrant with a bad ending. Peace was on me the day I was born, peace will be on me on the day I will die, and on the day I am raised alive again!"
Qur'an, Sura 19 Maryam, Ayah 30-33

Which translation is this because it's a little misleading as well as the words are different from the usual suspects. A careful translator will use brackets to make clear that words have been inserted by him to help convey the meaning he is trying to get across and are not part of the Arabic Qur'an. Example:

19:32 Allah predestined that I will be kind to my mother and not a tyrant with a bad ending

Transliteration
Wabarran biwalidatee walam yajAAalneejabbaran shaqiyya

There is no "Allah" in the Arabic. See the more accurate translations below for a better rendering of this verse:

Sahih International
And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
Muhsin Khan
"And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.
Pickthall
And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
Yusuf Ali
"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
Shakir
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;

[Prererularl]

@ Pouring Rain: no, that is not what I meant (first part of your reply). I would like to write a better reply but just spent some time on the other thread so insha'Allah, I will try to tackle this one again tomorrow or within the next few days. Just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring your post. Thanks so much for your comments and explanations. [Please, please, please, remind me if I forget by Monday...]

[Vobomei]

Peace PouringRain,

You probably have your hands full with reading Ma'ariful Qur'an but I thought it might interest you to read one commentary called Tafsir Uthmani. An avid reader such as yourself may find that reading many books is like a fish swimming in the sea.

I'd also second the suggestion of our sister Acacia to take Tafsir classes with an actual scholar who has knowledge of the Bible. If a scholar like that is too hard to find in your area, then you could listen to some audio recordings of Tafsir in English. Here's a link to Tafsir classes in English by a traditional scholar who resides in Chicago.

Hope you enjoy it.


http://www.sacredlearning.org/tafsir...ayout=category

[GoveMoony]

Peace PouringRain,

You probably have your hands full with reading Ma'ariful Qur'an but I thought it might interest you to read one commentary called Tafsir Uthmani. An avid reader such as yourself may find that reading many books is like a fish swimming in the sea.

I'd also second the suggestion of our sister Acacia to take Tafsir classes with an actual scholar who has knowledge of the Bible. If a scholar like that is too hard to find in your area, then you could listen to some audio recordings of Tafsir in English. Here's a link to Tafsir classes in English by a traditional scholar who resides in Chicago.

Hope you enjoy it.


http://www.sacredlearning.org/tafsir...ayout=category

Thank you for the link.

I don't want to add reading another tafsir at this present time, but I will keep it in mind for my next read-through.

[Freedjome]

Salaam Pouring Rain:

... I do understand this. Maariful reaches points all the time where it will state that it is best not to pursue the matter, nor to delve into it any further. I do recognize that there are many things that are unknowable to us, and on a personal level I understand that I will never know all things. As a researcher, my quest is eternally to seek an understanding of the unknown. I am perfectly content to not know the answers. The process, or the quest, is often more important to me than reaching a specific destination (i.e. a specific answer).

The commentary reflects what we are instructed by Allah to do and the quest for the Muslim is not one of an eternal quest for truth but rather an ongoing quest towards perfection in submission and eternal success. Since we are instructed not to pursue certain matters, not doing so (i.e. ignoring the instruction) could lead us astray from the path to perfection. And this is what I was trying to get at with the following:

The way I see it, the problem is not in seeking knowledge, as that is the goal of each and every one of us; the problem is in wavering, doubting, looking elsewhere, dabbling here and there, trying to merge everything, seeking commonalities, highlighting differences... in other words, simply not being content with the whole of what was given such that there is no room for further evaluation and analysis. Otherwise, I'm afraid something other than what was intended for us (Islam) emerges and that is misleading and erroneous...

I don't see the things you mentioned as being problems within themselves. Without doubts, there would be no reverts to Islam. (By the same token, doubts also take people out of the fold of Islam.) In itself, doubting is not a problem. Doubts lead to questions, which lead to truths. It is through wavering, doubts, looking elsewhere, etc. that we learn and grow. From my understanding, your concern is that these things may lead people away from Islam. But these same things are also what lead people to Islam.

When it comes to seeking commonalities and highlighting differences, I think those things are unavoidable. There was a thread posted on the forum recently that discussed the "hand of God" from Christian, Jewish, and Islamic viewpoints. The intent of the thread was to point out the differences between how Christians and Jews view God's hand and how Muslims view (or should view) God's hand. I did not respond to that thread, although I contemplated doing so for a long time. My response would have been that I am glad to see that the manner that Muslims should understand "god's hand" is the same manner in which Christians and Jews should. The author of the post saw differences, while I saw the commonality. The problem was not the way each actually view God's hand, or should view God's hand, the problem was in how each perceives that the other is viewing this.

Let me provide another example along the same lines that I have mentioned before. On a Christian forum, there was an individual who commented that a missionary to a Muslim country came back and reported that Muslims women say that they wear hijab because of shame. The error was a miscommunication/ misunderstanding. The missionary heard that Muslim women have shame, whereas the Muslim women were speaking of shame in the context of modesty, similar to in the Bible where women are instructed to be "shamefaced" (modest). The Christian missionary only saw differences between Christians and Muslims, when the truth is that the concept is one that is shared within the two religions...

On doubts: For a Muslim, doubts can be a problem and doubts can lead one astray - and here what I mean by doubt is doubting the word of Allah (naudhubillah). There is a moment where a person must surrender and submit totally to His will and that does not mean we do not seek to understand certain things through His signs. But faith requires submission, not total and complete understanding of the unknown... if that is the quest, we may never attain it. Allahu Alam.

On highlighting similarities/differences: Allah gives us the differences and similarities of Jews, Chrsitians and Muslims - there is no need for us to discuss them as only Allah knows them and we can only know that which he has given us the power to know. Hence, it is moot to try to discuss these issues and potentially cross the line into areas beyond our understanding and encounter doubt. I am not better able to discuss what Allah has already revealed and I am not in a position to piece together that which He has not given me the knowledge about. Insha'Allah I making sense here...

On misunderstandings/miscommunication: from the example you gave, if the Christian missionary had gone to the Qur'an (Allah's word) and hadeeth rather than asking the women directly, s/he may have understood the reason. Given that they went to a Muslim country, it may have been best to look into the religion, the laws, and customs of the place to avoid misunderstanding. Failing that, and receiving such an ambiguous answer, the missionary could have asked what the women meant by shame and perhaps that would have saved confusion too... [this ties into the other discussion on translation but I am not going to go into that in any further detail.]

I hope this clarifies what I meant.

Peace