[Vobomei]

The following are lengthy videos but since you are looking for Tasawwuf related matters, it is worth it to watch all of the videos:

http://www.zamzamacademy.com/view/vi...-and-tasawwuf/

The first part I watched and everything he said is things that I have heard before and I understand and respect it. He also said he will talk about Silsilahs but I can't find where he does, if you had watched them can you tell me at what part he talks about them inshallah?

[exchpaypaleg]

do you read Urdu ? I can share a book which deals on this issue and you can also search online, there are numerous books in Urdu on this subject. Have you read the book Shariat aur Tariqat ?

No I can't but if you know of anything in English about the Silsilahs let me know plz

[gopsbousperie]

Please watch all of the videos.

[2CNWXAqN]

my advice to you brother is to view your choice as a personal issue. Attend both gatherings and see which one you find peace with the most and which one gets you closer to Allah. Some people will prefer one, and some the other.

The mistake is when people go to extremes and view it as their mission to get others to convert to their school.

Imagine if in your locality, 200 salafis start practising, and 200 deos start practicing. Thats 400 practicing muslims. We should view the various schoolas as options which people can choose and a means of getting people practicing. But we shouldnt fight amongst each other. Rather we should work together for the revival of islam inshAllah. POlitics should be our main objective, even shaikh ul islam ibn taimiyyah left aside his salafi polemics in order to engage in battle against trhe mongols and he fought alongside who he considered to be ahlal bid'ah. So if we follow him, right now we must strive for islam rather than our school.

Also note that neither side considers each other kafir. Salafis consider the 72 sects of innovation to be muslims who will enter jannah but view salafi manhaj as the sect which is totally saved from the fire. So by being salafi they believe you will save yourself some hardship in the akhirah. but they dont view deos as destined to hell for eternity. I bleieve deos will have a similar view of salafis. so its not that one sect will enter you to fire eternally and one to jannah, rather one will get you straight into jannah and one MAY result in temporary punishment.

So both paths lead to jannah, and both are muslim.

so follow what gets you closer to Allah, but work together with both groups inshAllah, have tolerance for the group you dont choose, and prioritise serving the ummah at large, dont see it as a mission to convert to other side to your sect.

Becoming an alim to either sect will be beneficial if you focus on getting the laymen to start practising inshallah and raising the imaan of the people and doing good.

In terms of the differences, a salafi isnt madhab or ghair madhab, madhabs have nothing to do with salafi or none salafi.

salafi means you follow the athari school of aqeedah, as opposed to asharis and maturidis.

salafis have exactly the same approach to fiqh as deobandis do except deos are hanafi and salafis are hanbali mostly. Both groups do not follow their imams in everything but follow the usool and classical works of the school.

In terms of tassawuf, i agree, silsalahs are a put off for me too, but salafis believe in tazkiyah, just not with tareeqas or bayah or silsalahs. again, do what you feel most comfortable with or believe in and respect others choices inshAllah. These issues are all personal issues and we need to be united as one in terms of our dawah and political efforts. if you become an alim for a particular sect, dont see yourself as trying to get others to leave their sect for yours, rather see yourself as providing a service to the ummah for those who feel they benefit most from your school whilst respecting those who adopt a different choice. inshallah this is the best approach. wallahu a'lam

wh not go out with tablighees and attend al maghrib and al kawthar courses and just benefit from both groups and various organisations and activites until you feel like adopting one fully?

[Donadoni1809]

my advice to you brother is to view your choice as a personal issue. Attend both gatherings and see which one you find peace with the most and which one gets you closer to Allah. Some people will prefer one, and some the other.

The mistake is when people go to extremes and view it as their mission to get others to convert to their school.

Imagine if in your locality, 200 salafis start practising, and 200 deos start practicing. Thats 400 practicing muslims. We should view the various schoolas as options which people can choose and a means of getting people practicing. But we shouldnt fight amongst each other. Rather we should work together for the revival of islam inshAllah. POlitics should be our main objective, even shaikh ul islam ibn taimiyyah left aside his salafi polemics in order to engage in battle against trhe mongols and he fought alongside who he considered to be ahlal bid'ah. So if we follow him, right now we must strive for islam rather than our school.

Also note that neither side considers each other kafir. Salafis consider the 72 sects of innovation to be muslims who will enter jannah but view salafi manhaj as the sect which is totally saved from the fire. So by being salafi they believe you will save yourself some hardship in the akhirah. but they dont view deos as destined to hell for eternity. I bleieve deos will have a similar view of salafis. so its not that one sect will enter you to fire eternally and one to jannah, rather one will get you straight into jannah and one MAY result in temporary punishment.

So both paths lead to jannah, and both are muslim.

so follow what gets you closer to Allah, but work together with both groups inshAllah, have tolerance for the group you dont choose, and prioritise serving the ummah at large, dont see it as a mission to convert to other side to your sect.

Becoming an alim to either sect will be beneficial if you focus on getting the laymen to start practising inshallah and raising the imaan of the people and doing good.

In terms of the differences, a salafi isnt madhab or ghair madhab, madhabs have nothing to do with salafi or none salafi.

salafi means you follow the athari school of aqeedah, as opposed to asharis and maturidis.

salafis have exactly the same approach to fiqh as deobandis do except deos are hanafi and salafis are hanbali mostly. Both groups do not follow their imams in everything but follow the usool and classical works of the school.

In terms of tassawuf, i agree, silsalahs are a put off for me too, but salafis believe in tazkiyah, just not with tareeqas or bayah or silsalahs. again, do what you feel most comfortable with or believe in and respect others choices inshAllah. These issues are all personal issues and we need to be united as one in terms of our dawah and political efforts. if you become an alim for a particular sect, dont see yourself as trying to get others to leave their sect for yours, rather see yourself as providing a service to the ummah for those who feel they benefit most from your school whilst respecting those who adopt a different choice. inshallah this is the best approach. wallahu a'lam

wh not go out with tablighees and attend al maghrib and al kawthar courses and just benefit from both groups and various organisations and activites until you feel like adopting one fully?

Based upon my experiene I can say, if the OP is from the subcontinent then your defination of salafis while being true is very different from the Ground reality as in the subcontinent the claiments of salafism abandon all mazhabs inluding that of imam Ahmed bin Hamble r.e.h.

[ReneCM]

Based upon my experiene I can say, if the OP is from the subcontinent then your defination of salafis while being true is very different from the Ground reality as in the subcontinent the claiments of salafism abandon all mazhabs inluding that of imam Ahmed bin Hamble r.e.h.

yes, true they come in all shapes, sizes and colors, however, i would say these academic approaches has 0 effect when it comes to ibadah of Allah

If you want to become Zahid & Wali then all you need to pray to Allah with sincerity and Ikhlas. It doesn't matter what you start with , all that matters is that you die as a Muslim and Allah forgives you in the hereafter. You won't be asked if you were Deobandi or Salafi or Ashari or Sufi.

[tpdirorg]

Based upon my experiene I can say, if the OP is from the subcontinent then your defination of salafis while being true is very different from the Ground reality as in the subcontinent the claiments of salafism abandon all mazhabs inluding that of imam Ahmed bin Hamble r.e.h.

even still, if they are willing to unite then they should be tolerated. only those muslims who are dividing teh ummah should be opposed and i dont care if they are deobandi or salafi or ashari r whatever, they are causing fitnah. the likes of madkhalis for example. ibn taimiyyah was well into salaaif aqeedah yet dropped all that and worked with "ahlal bidah" against the mongols because our polemical differences arent as important as our political situation. a muslims blood is worth more than the ka'bah

i know very pious salafis who are so devout in their ibaadah mashallah. i also know deobandis like this. different approaches work for different people. its important to remmeber taht if a non practising muslim starts practising then it doesnt matter if they are practsiing deo or salafi, its still a good thing that we have one more practising muslim inshallah on our side

[affewheillMapew]

to the OP i woudlnt debate these issues in a forum ,id make your own perosnal journey of discovery , attend both, see what works for you, what gets you close to Allah, and then stick with that and giving a friendly nod to those who found peace with another path within ahlas sunnah inshallah

[Veveseinlep]

not all deobandis are sufis...its not fardh to join a tareeqa and have a shaykh

[Alice_Medichi34]

AbuFaatima has a very valid point as far as keeping the unity is concerned. however it is better to study under your local aalim instead of self study. remember you could always ask him if you have any misunderstanding

[SpyRemo]

AbuFaatima has a very valid point as far as keeping the unity is concerned. however it is better to study under your local aalim instead of self study. remember you could always ask him if you have any misunderstanding

sorry just to clarify im not saying do self study, but attend lessons of both salafi and deobandis and see what he feels get him closer to Allah inshAllah

[RG3rGWcA]

Alhamdulilah I want to thanks the brothers that posted the videos from zam zam academy.i have watched part 1 and inshallah I will watch part 2 in a little bit. But so far from what I have seen is that the sheik really explained most of the questions that I had about tassawuf. Now I understand the bath and the tariqas Alhamdulilah. After all of that I really feel like the leaders of the Saudi salifis are disuniting muslims and creating fitnah without and proper evidence. Everything they told me about tassawuf was basically misquotations. I'm beginning to think that the Saudi state is one of the biggest problems for the ummah today. Does anybody have any videos or lectures about how Saudi formed and the history behind it.

[Tveabuti]

bro. i think its unfair to say they are the biggest fitnah in the ummah today. to say that would be to suggest things would all be fine and dandy if they didnt exist. which clearly isnt true. example is tunisia. they never had salafis and they have real problems. the big problem is secularism and meddling kuffar

shame you never read anything i said and basically thought deo's are ok and now your becoming anti salafi. sectarianism wont help the ummah one iota

[Styparty]

Why cant we just be Muslims?

Afterall Kuffars dont care about our differences

in their eyers all Muslims are enemies

[forotis]

Firstly in 'Aqeedah be an Athari meaning layman Athari (The Hadith of Jibreel 'Alayhial-Salaam is sufficient) so you don't need to go down the road of getting tangled with Ash'ari, Maturidi and Salafi debates.

Some more elaboration on this conclusion from the Hadith, please.

@Hamzaln
Have you made your decision akhi?

[THOUTHCAW]

Everything they told me about tassawuf was basically misquotations. I'm beginning to think that the Saudi state is one of the biggest problems for the ummah today. Does anybody have any videos or lectures about how Saudi formed and the history behind it.

This

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud

and

this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikhwan

is a good read.

[movlabc]

Some more elaboration on this conclusion from the Hadith, please.

@Hamzaln
Have you made your decision akhi?

Yes if you saw my last post I said that after watching the videos from zamzam
Acedmy that I have learnt tassawuf Alhamdulilah. I accept them now. I don't know if I want to do a bayah or not but I do accept the ppl that do cause now I understand why they do it. So Alhamdulilah it feels really good because now I can unite with a lot more Muslim brothers and my heart has softened.

[wllsqyuipknczx]

Yes if you saw my last post I said that after watching the videos from zamzam
Acedmy that I have learnt tassawuf Alhamdulilah. I accept them now. I don't know if I want to do a bayah or not but I do accept the ppl that do cause now I understand why they do it. So Alhamdulilah it feels really good because now I can unite with a lot more Muslim brothers and my heart has softened.

[hellenmoranov]

Some more elaboration on this conclusion from the Hadith, please.

I was referring to the Famous Hadith of Jibril 'Alayhi al-Salaam recorded in the books of Sunans and Saheehs: "Bayna Ma Nahnu Juloos 'Inda Rasulillah ....", here is the full text from Sahih Muslim:

صحيح مسلم

قال بينما نحن عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات يوم إذ طلع علينا رجل شديد بياض الثياب شديد سواد الشعر لا يرى عليه أثر السفر ولا يعرفه منا أحد حتى جلس إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فأسند ركبتيه إلى ركبتيه ووضع كفيه على فخذيه وقال يا محمد أخبرني عن الإسلام فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم الإسلام أن تشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتقيم الصلاة وتؤتي الزكاة وتصوم رمضان وتحج البيت إن استطعت إليه سبيلا قال صدقت قال فعجبنا له يسأله ويصدقه قال فأخبرني عن الإيمان قال أن تؤمن بالله وملائكته وكتبه ورسله واليوم الآخر وتؤمن بالقدر خيره وشره قال صدقت قال فأخبرني عن الإحسان قال أن تعبد الله كأنك تراه فإن لم تكن تراه فإنه يراك قال فأخبرني عن الساعة قال ما المسئول عنها بأعلم من السائل قال فأخبرني عن أمارتها [ ص: 38 ] قال أن تلد الأمة ربتها وأن ترى الحفاة العراة العالة رعاء الشاء يتطاولون في البنيان قال ثم انطلق فلبثت مليا ثم قال لي يا عمر أتدري من السائل قلت الله ورسوله أعلم قال فإنه جبريل أتاكم يعلمكم دينكم

Here is the Translation.

This is the absolute layman's 'Aqeedah (Athari as you can get), so you don't have to get involved in the Salafiyyah, Ash'ariyyah and Maturidiyyah debates and leave that in the academic circles amongst the 'Ulama.

[1] Rasulullah told us what Islam is.

[2] Rasulullah told us what Imaan is.

[3] Jibreel came to TEACH the As-haab of Rasulillah their Religion ("Fa-Innahu Jibreel Ataakum Yu'allimakum Deenakum")

The above is sufficent for a believer and when you die Munakr and Nakeer will not ask you "Ayna Rabbuk" (where is your Lord) rather they will ask you "Man Rabbuk" (Who is your Lord). And Allah will not ask you if you took His Sifaat 'Ala al-Zaahiri or whether you did Tafweedh al-Ma'ana, rather he will ask you, did you pray as-Salah, and was your Worship sincerely for Him?

After taking on board the above Hadith of Jibreel 'Aayhial-Salaam, keep your tongue moist in Laa Ilaaha Illa-Allaah and do Good Works! I remind myself first before anyone.

Wallahu A'lam.

[sestomosi]

I was referring to the Famous Hadith of Jibril 'Alayhi al-Salaam recorded in the books of Sunans and Saheehs: "Bayna Ma Nahnu Juloos 'Inda Rasulillah ....", here is the full text from Sahih Muslim:

صحيح مسلم


Here is the Translation.

This is the absolute layman's 'Aqeedah (Athari as you can get), so you don't have to get involved in the Salafiyyah, Ash'ariyyah and Maturidiyyah debates and leave that in the academic circles amongst the 'Ulama.

[1] Rasulullah told us what Islam is.

[2] Rasulullah told us what Imaan is.

[3] Jibreel came to TEACH the As-haab of Rasulillah their Religion ("Fa-Innahu Jibreel Ataakum Yu'allimakum Deenakum")

The above is sufficent for a believer and when you die Munakr and Nakeer will not ask you "Ayna Rabbuk" (where is your Lord) rather they will ask you "Man Rabbuk" (Who is your Lord). And Allah will not ask you if you took His Sifaat 'Ala al-Zaahiri or whether you did Tafweedh al-Ma'ana, rather he will ask you, did you pray as-Salah, and was your Worship sincerely for Him?

After taking on board the above Hadith of Jibreel 'Aayhial-Salaam, keep your tongue moist in Laa Ilaaha Illa-Allaah and do Good Works! I remind myself first before anyone.

Wallahu A'lam.

akhi.
I suppose Mufti Limbada was saying the same thing in that short video on You Tube Hanafi Channel.
I asked you the question in my earlier post because I was wondering whether you might have got some further finer illustration.
And indeed we do not have to be finer than have to be.
And this is from Rasoolallah (SAW) himself!
Even then we keep trying to indulge in hair splitting.
May Allah (SWT) save us from investing time in useless disputations.
Wassalam