[Emunsesoxmete]

Asalamualyukum, I have been doing a lot of research between these two groups because I am trying to figure out which one I should follow. I have noticed that deoband's are usually a lot more nicer. It seems like some salafys have problems with pride and arrogance but they also have some very humble brothers as well. It seems like salafi's scholars have more knowledge. Also it seems like salafi masjids are pretty weak like the people inside them are either extermely moderate or extremely harsh. Seems like deoband masjids have stronger communities. The only major problem
I have with deobandies is tassawuf. The problem is that they don't really give me proofs from Quran And sunnah. They have shown me about how you should develop ihsan and I understand that part. The part that they haven't proven to me is the bayah and the proof for silsilah. There seems to be intelligent member on this forum so can anyone prove these things?

[Heliosprime]

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

So according to you both are not 100%, in this case take what is good from both after you decide on what Fiqhi methodology you should follow.

[XinordiX]

, just to inform you, this forum is mainly deobandi, so you may not hear the other side much here....Whatever you do, clean your mind of personal biases and prejudices before you begin working on finding the truth...Ask Allah for guidance, He Guides those He chooses to the right path..

[KevinDonae]

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

So according to you both are not 100%, in this case take what is good from both after you decide on what Fiqhi methodology you should follow.

I can't take what's good from both cause it seems like you have to choose one or the other.

[TouccuraLar]

, just to inform you, this forum is mainly deobandi, so you may not hear the other side much here....Whatever you do, clean your mind of personal biases and prejudices before you begin working on finding the truth...Ask Allah for guidance, He Guides those He chooses to the right path..

Inshallah and that is why I posted that here I mainly want eveidense for those two things I was talking about and who better to ask than the people who follow that way.

[pharmacologist30]

I can't take what's good from both cause it seems like you have to choose one or the other.

I do it all the time, I pray according to the Shafi`i madhab, I follow their rulings in most matters, at the same time I benefit a lot from Salafi books and researches in the fields of Hadith and Sunnah.

PS. I'm neither Deo or Salafi.

[rozalinasi]

Brother, there is no Deobandi and Salafi comparison. There is either following a Madh'ab or being a Salafi.

Deobandi is a term that gained fame because of the excellence of the scholars from Deoband Madrassa, and also due to the false allegations from a very confusedly deviant sect in the sub-continent. Deobandi is often used (in the sub-continent) to clarify that I follow in accordance to the Ulema of Deoband and am not amongst the innovated sects.

A Deobandi Hanafi (who have studied from Deoband or its sister institutions, or follow the rulings from the scholars affiliated with Deoband Madrassa) and a Hanafi anywhere around the world has no difference. Also, being a Hanafi does not require you to be Bay'ah to a Shaykh. Bay'ah is preferable, however the aim is to purify yourself and that is obligatory on every believer.

On being a Salafi, I do not reply because I may be biased due to the people I have encountered have given me this weird impression. I guess Brother Abu Fatimah can help you understand their ideology better.

In regards to your question of proving Silsilah, Bay'ah, I guess some knowledgeable brother will clarify the issue to you.

And Allah knows best.

[HaseBeceDeemy]

Not every Deobandi is a Sufi, and not every Salafi abandons the Madhahib.

Firstly in 'Aqeedah be an Athari meaning layman Athari (The Hadith of Jibreel 'Alayhial-Salaam is sufficient) so you don't need to go down the road of getting tangled with Ash'ari, Maturidi and Salafi debates.

Secondly in Fiqh if your already a Hanafi, then find good Scholars of this School whom you can refer to, whether they are from Egypt, India, South Africa or any part of the World who can teach you the fiqh of this School and transmit authentically the School's opinions. But better to look in your locality wherever ever you may reside. And work your way up in 'Ilm, learn the beautiful language of the Qur'an and increasing your knowledge.

Thirdly Sufism is a branch of Ihsan, Tazkiyah al-Nafs, which in itself is obligatory upon every Muslim, which is reforming ones-self, now whether you do this by finding a Shaykh and learning from him through Bay'ah (or not) or simply attending the Duroos of Mashaayikh teaching this side of the science through their own methods then that is also fine, we cannot be people of Ta'assub. There were classical Scholars who were masters of Turooq and this is why some Schools have kept this practice of the Classical Scholars, and the downside is you will find some who are Ghuloo Sufis and some who are not. so always be alert of fraudsters and charlatans.

And with Allah is help sought.

[yespkorg]

Not every Deobandi is a Sufi, and not every Salafi abandons the Madhahib.

Firstly in 'Aqeedah be an Athari meaning layman Athari (The Hadith of Jibreel 'Alayhial-Salaam is sufficient) so you don't need to go down the road of getting tangled with Ash'ari, Maturidi and Salafi debates.

Secondly in Fiqh if your already a Hanafi, then find good Scholars of this School whom you can refer to, whether they are from Egypt, India, South Africa or any part of the World who can teach you the fiqh of this School and transmit authentically the School's opinions. But better to look in your locality wherever ever you may reside. And work your way up in 'Ilm, learn the beautiful language of the Qur'an and increasing your knowledge.

Thirdly Sufism is a branch of Ihsan, Tazkiyah al-Nafs, which in itself is obligatory upon every Muslim, which is reforming ones-self, now whether you do this by finding a Shaykh and learning from him through Bay'ah (or not) or simply attending the Duroos of Mashaayikh teaching this side of the science through their own methods then that is also fine, we cannot be people of Ta'assub. There were classical Scholars who were masters of Turooq and this is why some Schools have kept this practice of the Classical Scholars, and the downside is you will find some who are Ghuloo Sufis and some who are not. so always be alert of fraudsters and charlatans.

And with Allah is help sought.

Your third paragraph, that is where my problem starts. I want to accept deobandie style but the problem is that I need. The proof for the bayah and the silsilah. This is my major issure

[Assentesy]

Brother, there is no Deobandi and Salafi comparison. There is either following a Madh'ab or being a Salafi.

Deobandi is a term that gained fame because of the excellence of the scholars from Deoband Madrassa, and also due to the false allegations from a very confusedly deviant sect in the sub-continent. Deobandi is often used (in the sub-continent) to clarify that I follow in accordance to the Ulema of Deoband and am not amongst the innovated sects.

A Deobandi Hanafi (who have studied from Deoband or its sister institutions, or follow the rulings from the scholars affiliated with Deoband Madrassa) and a Hanafi anywhere around the world has no difference. Also, being a Hanafi does not require you to be Bay'ah to a Shaykh. Bay'ah is preferable, however the aim is to purify yourself and that is obligatory on every believer.

On being a Salafi, I do not reply because I may be biased due to the people I have encountered have given me this weird impression. I guess Brother Abu Fatimah can help you understand their ideology better.

In regards to your question of proving Silsilah, Bay'ah, I guess some knowledgeable brother will clarify the issue to you.

And Allah knows best.

Good point I respect that

[abishiots]

Your third paragraph, that is where my problem starts. I want to accept deobandie style but the problem is that I need. The proof for the bayah and the silsilah. This is my major issure

Can anyone prove madrassas from Qur'an and Sunnah?

The tariqah is simply a means. A person can be part of a tariqah or he may not. Similarly, a madrassa is a means to an end. A person can attend a madrassa or study directly under a scholar to gain knowledge. It all depends on what is most effective for a person.

[Nwxffgke]

Can anyone prove madrassas from Qur'an and Sunnah?

The tariqah is simply a means. A person can be part of a tariqah or he may not. Similarly, a madrassa is a means to an end. A person can attend a madrassa or study directly under a scholar to gain knowledge. It all depends on what is most effective for a person.

But the deobandi scholars told me that the tariaqa is a line that goes back to the prophet? And they also said the tariqahs are named after man from like 400-500 years ago. And they said those men started the tariqahs. So how does it go back to the prophet? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[xtc2d6u8]

Your third paragraph, that is where my problem starts. I want to accept deobandie style but the problem is that I need. The proof for the bayah and the silsilah. This is my major issure

You can abandon the third part relating to Tasawwuf as there are scholars from the past who were against Tasawuf. But my advice is that you stick with Deoband / Tablighi affiliated scholars and mosques. They are more organised and inshallah it will help you in your path to Allah


After all, Allah has made a promise that


And those who strive for Us - We will surely guide them to Our ways. And indeed, Allah is with the doers of good.
Quran 29:69

So, with sincerity and honesty every path towards Allah will be easy and it really doesn't matter what you start with deobandi,salafi,ashari,sufi or whatever.

[Uojeyak]

You can abandon the third part relating to Tasawwuf as there are scholars from the past who were against Tasawuf. But my advice is that you stick with Deoband / Tablighi affiliated scholars and mosques. They are more organised and inshallah it will help you in your path to Allah


After all, Allah has made a promise that


And those who strive for Us - We will surely guide them to Our ways. And indeed, Allah is with the doers of good.
Quran 29:69

So, with sincerity and honesty every path towards Allah will be easy and it really doesn't matter what you start with deobandi,salafi,ashari,sufi or whatever.

That's true and don't get me wrong I would still learn Arabic from them and pray with them. It's just that I want to study Islam full time. So I. Order to pick a school it's important to go to the right place. I like both but if I can't get evidence for those things I would think that the deobandis are a problem. Because its a big deal to say this goes back to the prophet without evidence

[EbrsaRynleot]

But the deobandi scholars told me that the tariaqa is a line that goes back to the prophet? And they also said the tariqahs are named after man from like 400-500 years ago. And they said those men started the tariqahs. So how does it go back to the prophet? It just doesn't make sense to me.

A tariqah simply is a path, a link of spiritual instruction. They were formalized later on, but they existed in a primordial form during the time of Rasoolullah just how madrassas existed in a primordial form. Both became formalized later on. No one called it a madrassa when the sahaba used to learn the masaail of the deen from Rasoolullah . No one called it tasawwuf when the sahaba would learn spiritual remedies from Rasoolullah . So, even though these things existed, they were not called as such since they were in a formative state.

Look at it this way: in Islam, we have the concept of Ijaza to determine legitimate scholars, going back to Rasoolullah . Rasoolullah never gave anyone ijaza in the same manner as it is given today.

[mygalinasoo]

A tariqah simply is a path, a link of spiritual instruction. They were formalized later on, but they existed in a primordial form during the time of Rasoolullah just how madrassas existed in a primordial form. Both became formalized later on. No one called it a madrassa when the sahaba used to learn the masaail of the deen from Rasoolullah . No one called it tasawwuf when the sahaba would learn spiritual remedies from Rasoolullah . So, even though these things existed, they were not called as such since they were in a formative state.

Look at it this way: in Islam, we have the concept of Ijaza to determine legitimate scholars, going back to Rasoolullah . Rasoolullah never gave anyone ijaza in the same manner as it is given today.

So your saying that from the time of the prophet Until for example naqshbandi that people were giving bayah and that was how a scholar got ijaza and them naqshbandi came and they named it after him?

[untostaronaf]

So your saying that from the time of the prophet Until for example naqshbandi that people were giving bayah and that was how a scholar got ijaza and them naqshbandi came and they named it after him?

Salam

brother i take it you're not lookig for piece meal answers youw ant something with depth etc. it will take some time on your part i recommend that you listen to these lectures:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9NX5...feature=relmfu

they let you understand tasawuf from a historical viewpoint and the various proofs for the different aspects of it, and where many have gone wrong.

[videolkif]

Salam

brother i take it you're not lookig for piece meal answers youw ant something with depth etc. it will take some time on your part i recommend that you listen to these lectures:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9NX5...feature=relmfu

they let you understand tasawuf from a historical viewpoint and the various proofs for the different aspects of it, and where many have gone wrong.

Do you know which one talks about silsilah. In the one u showed me he said that in one part he will talk about the silsilahs. I can't find it, do u know which video it is?

[gogona]

Do you know which one talks about silsilah. In the one u showed me he said that in one part he will talk about the silsilahs. I can't find it, do u know which video it is?

do you read Urdu ? I can share a book which deals on this issue and you can also search online, there are numerous books in Urdu on this subject. Have you read the book Shariat aur Tariqat ?

[RildFiemodo]

The following are lengthy videos but since you are looking for Tasawwuf related matters, it is worth it to watch all of the videos:

http://www.zamzamacademy.com/view/vi...-and-tasawwuf/