[JMLot]

AssalaamsWW,

Interesting video. Is it seriously this bad?? Anyone from Indonesia on SF that can shed light on the situation??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9NcbVa4FU

[Moupponge]

mashAllah mercy mission do such great initiatives, they really work hard for the ummah and stay away from the unbeneficial rubbish that I see a lot in muslims these days.

I like mercy misison a lot alhamdulillah may Allah reward them with good

[Lerpenoaneway]

i opened a thread about it called 'save maryam' a few days ago. the 2 million claim has been discussed over there.

[Gometesstem]

can you link the thread?

Here is the action plan:

http://www.mercymissionworld.org/blo...m-action-plan/

[actifadepette]

i opened a thread about it called 'save maryam' a few days ago. the 2 million claim has been discussed over there.

I checked it out bro and the only people who brougth any evidence forward were the ones who supported the figure. The only people opposing it eitehr said "Im from indonesia so I should know" or my personal favourite "I have a source but im not giving it to you".

The other side provided these:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...982223,00.html

http://www.pioneers.org/multiply/indonesia.aspx

So its clear there is a christian problem. Rather than attack the video we should support the initiative inshAllah. that discussion is everything that is wrong with the ummah

[Narus63]

i appreciate your concerns but nobody is saying the video or the idea is 100% correct. some are supporting it and some are not. let it be.
the save maryam team are doing a good job clarifying it. let them do it.

[HondasMenFox]

well im for it so let me be also inshAllah

[Alulursuifold]

yeah just don't turn people off by attacking everyone who voices a concern over the project.

[rorsvierwelia]

AssalaamsWW,

Interesting video. Is it seriously this bad?? Anyone from Indonesia on SF that can shed

light on the situation??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9NcbVa4FU

Wa'alaikum salam

Not so bad like this. 2 millions Muslims convert to Christianity every year is a rumor that spread by Christian missionaries. There are Muslims who convert to Christianity, but not so much like in this rumor. Even many of them then back to Islam again. Also, there are Christians who convert to Islam.

Yes, Christianization is a problem for Muslims in Indonesia, but situation is not so bad like this. There are many Muslims who fight against Christianization. They are coming from many Muslims organizations, or personal.

But bro, Mercy Mission did not active in this jihad. They have branch in Indonesian, but actually they are Australian and Western Muslims, not Indonesian. They did not know situation in Indonesia.

If they want to join in this jihad, it's okay. But their action that spread rumor which created by Christian missionaries has given bad effect to this jihad. Also Mercy Mission gave false information in the video which they show a Muslim girl convert to Christian because Christian TV program. It could disturb a harmony between Muslims and Christians in Indonesia which many of them are Kuffar Dimmy.

Muslims who converted to Christianity in Indonesia were not those who watch TV, but very poor people in villages who were in hunger.

[libertiespana]

I'm more worried about Chrisitan attempt to spark rebellion in West part of Papua new Guinea.

[Wdlglivi]

yeah just don't turn people off by attacking everyone who voices a concern over the project.

Im only responding to the criticism and if someone would decide whether to support it or not because of me then they should consider their own ikhlaas.

My advice is either help mercy misison in their project or remain quiet. Some people dont agree with the tablighee jamaa'at because its not salafi but I tell them the same thing. Either help them, or be quiet. The only way we will regain our izza is if we are together inshAllah. If a brother feels better with tablighees or mercy mission or anyone else, fine, go where you feel the strongest imaan, but dont attack your brothers when there are far greater priorities at stake. and if you choose to ignore this advice then dont cry when your own groups are attacked by muslims from other sects because you reap what you sow

[PlanTaleks]

I'm more worried about Chrisitan attempt to spark rebellion in West part of Papua new Guinea.

There's no proof that rebellion in Papua is backed by Christian churces. But no wonder if the Papuan launched rebellion, they become second class citizen in their own land.

Ever heard about Freeport?. This is a huge mining company in Papua that owned by American. They employ many non-Papuan workers from Java and other island with good salaries, few of my friend are working there. While the Papuan themselves? just as low class workers.

Also business market in Papua are ruled by people from Sulawesi (Celebes) and their clans. The Papuan just become micro trader.

[hojutok]

There's no proof that rebellion in Papua is backed by Christian churces. But no wonder if the Papuan launched rebellion, they become second class citizen in their own land.

Ever heard about Freeport?. This is a huge mining company in Papua that owned by American. They employ many non-Papuan workers from Java and other island with good salaries, few of my friend are working there. While the Papuan themselves? just as low class workers.

Also business market in Papua are ruled by people from Sulawesi (Celebes) and their clans. The Papuan just become micro trader.

Any hope of bringing them towards Islam and get Muslims leaders to rise among them who fight for their rights?

[jdynwa]

Any hope of bringing them towards Islam and get Muslims leaders to rise among them who fight for their rights?

some papuan tribes leader embraced Islam,
http://theunjustmedia.com/Islamic%20...bhanallah!.htm

and for what i heard, Missionaries works inside rural areas where people are still poor, and the imam or ustadz is not aware about their activitiy

the Christians missionaries in Indonesia are shameless, even they hijack govt education program for attempt to convert muslims kid to Christianity
the latest attempt was when they caught red handed trying to educate young muslims children about christians using govt "smart car" program.
the Christians using Internet as main Christianization media, they have affiliations with islamophobes global network like faithfreedom, wikiislam etc
their targets are un-informed young muslims.

Muslim organizations were a bit too late to formed media resistances, but now many muslims debating these internet missionaries via his/her blog, while in real life they formed something like anti-missionaries front.

about the video, 2 million.... well in the 90's muslims was 87-90% of populations while now only 85,1%
so maybe they made the videos based on official statistic

but overall all religious leader from islam ,christian, hindu, budha etc in indonesia are weak in front of massive secularization, after Indonesia spring in 1998, even kuffar adult magazine are allowed to circulate, only muslims youth dare to challenge such thing, as far as i know no christian or other religious leader protesting.
but still the muslims are weak, and don't have political power to change it......

[PRengine]

but overall all religious leader from islam ,christian, hindu, budha etc in indonesia are weak in front of massive secularization, after Indonesia spring in 1998, even kuffar adult magazine are allowed to circulate, only muslims youth dare to challenge such thing, as far as i know no christian or other religious leader protesting.
but still the muslims are weak, and don't have political power to change it......

true : (

[seooptiman]

the Christians missionaries in Indonesia are shameless, even they hijack govt education program for attempt to convert muslims kid to Christianity
the latest attempt was when they caught red handed trying to educate young muslims children about christians using govt "smart car" program.

Until very recently the Christian missionaries did the same thing here in Cambodia, though the Mormons are even worse. First they go into small villages, usually during the height of our yearly drought or flood (which is when everyone is desperate and hungry), and give out comic style leaflets to the kids showing Buddhists (the national religion) burning in hell, and Christians in heaven. Then they offer sacks of rice to families in exchange for their attendance at Church, and offer English language classes to kids who attend. We call the Khmers who fall for this "rice Christians". It's exploitation at it's worst.

The Prime Minister recently decided that he'd had enough of it, created new laws aimed at curbing the practice, and has begun denying permission to build new Churches. IMO, it's the best thing he's done in years. If you want people to follow your religion, lead by example with kindness and love, don't force hungry children to accept your religion just so they can eat.

Fortunately, I haven't seen Muslims engaging in such corrupt practices here, it seems confined to Christianity and it's offshoots.

[Verger99]

about the video, 2 million.... well in the 90's muslims was 87-90% of populations while now only 85,1%
so maybe they made the videos based on official statistic

In 80's my uncle told me that Muslims were less than 85%. Percentage of Muslims might be changed year by year, but 2 millions Muslims in Indonesia leave Islam every year is too big.

but overall all religious leader from islam ,christian, hindu, budha etc in indonesia are weak in front of massive secularization, after Indonesia spring in 1998, even kuffar adult magazine are allowed to circulate, only muslims youth dare to challenge such thing, as far as i know no christian or other religious leader protesting.
but still the muslims are weak, and don't have political power to change it...... Compared with 70's and 80's, basically Indonesian Muslims now are more religious. But it made the secularist launched 'counter attack'.

[ThomasMannfanny]

Until very recently the Christian missionaries did the same thing here in Cambodia, though the Mormons are even worse. First they go into small villages, usually during the height of our yearly drought or flood (which is when everyone is desperate and hungry), and give out comic style leaflets to the kids showing Buddhists (the national religion) burning in hell, and Christians in heaven. Then they offer sacks of rice to families in exchange for their attendance at Church, and offer English language classes to kids who attend. We call the Khmers who fall for this "rice Christians". It's exploitation at it's worst.

The Prime Minister recently decided that he'd had enough of it, created new laws aimed at curbing the practice, and has begun denying permission to build new Churches. IMO, it's the best thing he's done in years. If you want people to follow your religion, lead by example with kindness and love, don't force hungry children to accept your religion just so they can eat.

Fortunately, I haven't seen Muslims engaging in such corrupt practices here, it seems confined to Christianity and it's offshoots.

Its not allowed in Islam. As you mentioned, we call people via explaining our faith and living it the best we can and showing a good example/ I myself converted after seeing how muslims in a particular muslim country lived. The saying actions speak louder than words is very true

[Lilji]

This discussion though should highlight how much we need to be together inshAllah as an ummah and cooperating in dealing with the challenges we face. Let different groups exist, maybe someone feels better with salafi, some with sufi, some with madhab, some without, let them exist as you will find that each group attracts some people and has some strong hardcore followers, we find peace with different groups within islam so let the different schools of thought exist and let us cooperate together in the important affairs like dawah and combatting secularisation, before the muslim lands are as bad as the non muslim lands, with mini skirts and drugs and youth being vulgar and rude to their parents and all of the other sad things I have seen growing up as a westerner