[gyjsdtuwr]

AssalaamsWW

One (big) issue no one seems to have considered is how exactly will they implement this on a day-to-day basis especially for large Masjids. In May and June many masjids were invited to Regents Park masjid to discuss the issue of salaah times. Full minutes of all three meetings are here: www.londonmuslimforum.org.uk

If, for the next approx 6-8 years, 18d suhoor is at nearish 1am and Magrhib average time for those 8 weeks (of persistent twilight) is 9:18 and Esha start time, based on 1hr after Magrhib method for summer, is approx 10:18, that’ll mean tarawi will finish at about 12pm, leaving only 1 hour for suhoor. Even thats being generous as you have to take into account the musallees (usually elderly) praying taravi in the front row of a large Masid with about 1000+ attending Taravi. It’ll take minimum 10mins just to get out (for bigger masjids like East London Masjid and Regents Park it’ll take longer as their tarawi is 1hr 30mins minimum – which is why i think they are very reluctant to go back to 18d). It doesn’t end there. Once you’re outside it take about least 5mins to get to the car and depending where to you live more mins to drive/walk home. Now once home the heats really on you, you have to (a) try to squeeze a decent tahujjud/dua in and (b) finish suhoor 5 mins before the 1am time. How exactly is all that doable for musallees attending a large masjid? I did mention that to a group of ulama known to strongly favour 18 degrees for fajr a couple weeks or so back and got back differing views i.e. some suggested bring Esha forward little earlier, some saying combining Magrhib and Esha (with short break in between i.e. 30/40mins, - though then that means next to no time for iftaar food), or ensuring only 1 para is read each day (probs making up the extra para towards the end). In a nutshell a confusion all around. No idea how it’ll work this Ramdhan for those large masjids in London doing 18d and with suhoor at 1ish.......

So my question again: How will this work in practice for large masjids doing suhoor at 1ish (mainly masjids in the South East of England)

What im NOT asking: the validity of the 18d rule for Fajr. Ive prayed fajr on the 18d time for the past year or two and continue to do so..

[Teareerah]

aaww,

sorry not from london but for myself i think early fajr, about 1.15 will work out I.A ok for me.
if taraweeh finishes at 12 and it will leave about an hour for suhoor etc.
after early fajr can get to bed and I.A get a few hours sleep before work.

with the other time of fajr at approx 3am it would mean having to stay up till fajr or having to wake up after couple of hours sleep for fajr and then getting back to sleep- this in my view is more difficult,especially for people like me who have to start work early in morning.

been following 18 degrees for many years now (cant remember because its been so long- about 10 years plus)

[BCVB9SOc]

Bro daywalk3r, its simple, take a tiffin with you to taraweeh, after taraweeh go downstairs munch up till subh sadiq, pray fajr go home, go sleep.

Now that's what i call a plan

[Enalsebeerkawl]

With such long fasts, do people in England even have two meals between maghrib and fajr, regardless of the degrees??

[mQb0aVZe]

Lets not talk about the pro’s and ‘or cons of other timings . lets simply try deal with the practicality of the 18d time.

Example:

Iftar: 9:20
Finish Magrib & sunnahs: 9:35
Leaving Large masjid: 9:38
Getting home: 9:45

Esha Azaan: 10:25
Esha starts: 10:35
Tarawi and Witr ends (based on 1 para): 12:10
Leaving large Masjid: 12:17
Getting to car and driving home or walking home: between 12:20 and 12:30
Approx 25 mins to get ready for tahajjud/duas and eating suhoor
Suhoor 12:55am

That is just very hard to do..unless you either bring esha even more foward slightly or get speedy reciters in tarawi.

[Chiquita]

yeah i think they were discussin in this thread: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...t=mufti+ashfaq

i always thought the earlier suhoor was the most reliable opinion? and did that last year but might just follow local mosque with the late one for the sake of not starting arguments again at home.

[dahlilaninfo]

sigh. is it too much to ask:-

"What im NOT asking: the validity of the 18d rule for Fajr. Ive prayed fajr on the 18d time for the past year or two and continue to do so.. " !8d IS the most reliable opinion. Always has been = BUT that is not the point of this thread.

[newpiknicker]

lol ok big boy, take a chill pill, and control your temper.

sound like my wife over petty stuff

who cares how practical it is for you? people can manage it.. surely they'll be other issues and rulings to do with moving other prayer times and joining maghrib and isha etc.? then you gotta think about the masses and people and laymen who wont know whats going on. read the stories of the pious, you dont need a big suhoor meal and you can read 2 rakats of tahajjud and do dua..or go home after fajr as per fake shaykh above.

[Enjoymms]

Lets not talk about the pro’s and ‘or cons of other timings . lets simply try deal with the practicality of the 18d time.

Example:

Iftar: 9:20
Finish Magrib & sunnahs: 9:35
Leaving Large masjid: 9:38
Getting home: 9:45

Esha Azaan: 10:25
Esha starts: 10:35
Tarawi and Witr ends (based on 1 para): 12:10
Leaving large Masjid: 12:17
Getting to car and driving home or walking home: between 12:20 and 12:30
Approx 25 mins to get ready for tahajjud/duas and eating suhoor
Suhoor 12:55am

That is just very hard to do..unless you either bring esha even more foward slightly or get speedy reciters in tarawi.

I can see the issue here. Are you suggesting we should consider combining Maghrib and Esha or praying less in tarawih (speedy reciters defeats the purpose?)? Tarawih will become Tahajjud and Tarwaih combined ...

If the Quraa' are from the Indian sub-continent (who tend to pray faster) it will finish at 12:10, but if not, we are looking at 12:30.

For those who work it works very well as it means they don't need to wake up again for fajr, so can have a decent sleep before rising for work. However, for those who live far from the mosque, they'll probably need to consider having suhoor at the masjid?

Are the mosques who don't follow 18 degrees catering for those who follow 18 degree and are in itikaaf?

[somozasayre]

Lets not talk about the pro’s and ‘or cons of other timings . lets simply try deal with the practicality of the 18d time.

Example:

Iftar: 9:20
Finish Magrib & sunnahs: 9:35
Leaving Large masjid: 9:38
Getting home: 9:45

Esha Azaan: 10:25
Esha starts: 10:35
Tarawi and Witr ends (based on 1 para): 12:10
Leaving large Masjid: 12:17
Getting to car and driving home or walking home: between 12:20 and 12:30
Approx 25 mins to get ready for tahajjud/duas and eating suhoor
Suhoor 12:55am

That is just very hard to do..unless you either bring esha even more foward slightly or get speedy reciters in tarawi.

Bhaijan, thats why ive always been telling you guys to start practicing water fasting

Well its easy. Do iftar + dinner + Sehri either with iftar or between maghrib and isha.

If you cant survive without Suhoor then theres a great solution for you. Read taraweeh at home

You have to sacrifice something, either food or taraweeh in masjid.

[gtyruzzel]

I have always wondered about this issue:

Is cutting the number of rakaats in Taraweeh due to the hardship that is apparent in this circumstance an option at all? Can the ulama give their opinion?

[Dr.Hoodoba]

I have always wondered about this issue:

Is cutting the number of rakaats in Taraweeh due to the hardship that is apparent in this circumstance an option at all? Can the ulama give their opinion?

The number of rakats will not be reduced, the only thing that will be reduced will be the recitation of quran, so instead of praying one chapter they might pray selected / smaller suras

[qd0vhq4f]

The number of rakats will not be reduced, the only thing that will be reduced will be the recitation of quran, so instead of praying one chapter they might pray selected / smaller suras

Yes, that would be the only option. Praying tarawih in the mosque is only sunna kifaya so if one finds it hard, he can leave after the ward and pray his short tarawih at home.

[extessarere]

The number of rakats will not be reduced, the only thing that will be reduced will be the recitation of quran, so instead of praying one chapter they might pray selected / smaller suras

But can that be considered an option at all since Taraweeh is not from the faraidh?

[ANCETPYNCTEXT]

But can that be considered an option at all since Taraweeh is not from the faraidh?

Well Ibn al-Humam considered 8 rak'at tarawih sunnah and 12 rak'aat mustahab. But I wonder if any Hanafi Mufti will give a fatwa on this view in such cases of need where the fasting hours are long and the time to eat is little?

فتحصل من هذا كله أن قيام رمضان سنة إحدى عشرة ركعة بالوتر في جماعة فعله صلى الله عليه وسلم ثم تركه لعذر ، أفاد أنه لولا خشية ذلك لواظبت بكم ، ولا شك في تحقق الأمن من ذلك بوفاته صلى الله عليه وسلم فيكون سنة ، وكونها عشرين سنة الخلفاء الراشدين
وقوله صلى الله عليه وسلم « عليكم بسنتي وسنة الخلفاء الراشدين » ندب إلى سنتهم ، ولا يستلزم كون ذلك سنته

He compared with the 4 rak'at after Isha. 2 of them are sunnah while the other 2 are mustahabb:

وبتقدير عدم ذلك العذر إنما استفدنا أنه كان يواظب على ما وقع منه وهو ما ذكرنا فتكون العشرون مستحبا وذلك القدر منها هو السنة كالأربع بعد العشاء مستحبة وركعتان منها هي السنة

http://feqh.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?p...ID=530&PID=514