[brilkyPlayday]

Salaams

after the accusation that supposedly being salafi leads to kufr, I thought I woudl have a go at collecting together all of the off shoots of shia islam, to show where a lot of deviated groups sprang from. many of them are whole new religions. Have a read through their beliefs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahl-i_Haqq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai

Why do so many new religions seem to off shoot from the shia? Is it a plot to corrupt the muslim lands? Can anyone name any other offshoots of the shia?

[interznakinfo]

Salaams

after the accusation that supposedly being salafi leads to kufr, I thought I woudl have a go at collecting together all of the off shoots of shia islam, to show where a lot of deviated groups sprang from. many of them are whole new religions. Have a read through their beliefs:

Which post is that, is it this one? http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post771383 Or a different one, because i would love to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahl-i_Haqq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai

Why do so many new religions seem to off shoot from the shia? Is it a plot to corrupt the muslim lands? Can anyone name any other offshoots of the shia? The "Ismailis" are not an offshoot of Shia'ism. Rather, they are independant and separate strand of Shia'ism in its own right. Before the rise of the Safavid empire, the Ismailis were the dominant form of Shia. Egypt was the center of the Ismaili shia empire, they called themselves the "Fatimids". This came to an end when Shirkuh and Nur-ud-Deen (the uncle of Salahudeen) invaded Egypt, and killed off those heretics. After that, remnants of the Ismailis formed miltia groups called the Hashashin ("assassin"), who allied with the Crusaders, and continuously tried to assassinate Salahuddin. They too were unsuccessful.

The war between shia and sunni, isnt some "divide & conquer" conspired by the West. Rather, the shias have time and time again been allies of the West (during the Crusades, Afghan invasion, Iraq occupation). The struggle between Sunni and Shia has been waged since the death of the Prophet (sa) and assassinations of the Sahaba by the Shia and Kharijite. Imam Hussein and Zaid were both tricked and betrayed by them.

Yazidi is a separate religion in itself, no relation to Shia'ism. But, Bahai and his predecessor Bab were just run-off-the-mill nutjobs who turned dajjals, by falsely claiming to be Prophets. Its nothing to do with Rawafid in particular, this type of cultism happens in both the West and East, and especially in India. During the height of the Iraq war, there was a shia cult called "Jund as Sama" that formed with some fake messiah, who believed that causing destruction/bloodshed who hasten the arrival of the Mahdi. This was a really weird event in the war, but they quickly disntengrated and their leader apparently killed in 2007.

It is the duty of the Muslims to actively refute, fight, and pursue these false messenger and dajjals. And force them to confess and repent, or exterminate them. With regards to Bahai, Sikh, Druze, they formed claiming to be Prophets and successor to Islam, and should be fought against. But since then, these people have become a separate religion, and no longer claim to be representing Islam. Hence, there is no point in fighting them.

This is the divergence between them and the Shia, who still falsely CLAIM to be Muslims. They are thus spreading lies, and planting the seeds of fitnah and jahiliya among the true Muslims. These are the Munafiq, whom Muslims are supposed to fight against. They will pretend to be your brother, but when opportunity strikes (Iraq, Syria, Crusades, Lebanon, Pakistan), they will stab you in your back. Many Muslim countries (Iraq, Pakistan, Syria) are controlled by murtad Shia families/elite.

[triardwonvada]

Which post is that, is it this one? http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post771383 Or a different one, because i would love to read it.

i believe a different one.
it started from here.
then spiralled out to here.

and now abufatimah claims it was said that 'salafism leads to kufr'.
while the truth is simply this.

[nintenda]

shia kafir

[Cyncceply]

Walikum Assalam Wa Rehmatullah.

Ismailism originated on the difference on the 7th Imam as per the Shiite lineage of Imamat. Shiite accepted Musa Al-Kazim to be the successor of Imam Jafar as Sadiq RA whereas Ismailis (as their name suggests) took the elder brother of Musa Al-Kazim, Ismail ibn Jafar as the successor. Similarly, Mustaali (of which a large group is Bohra) differentiated with Ismailis on the 19th legitimate successor, where Nizar was taken by Ismailis and Al-Musta'li was taken by Mustaalis to be their respective Imams.

And Allah knows best.

[Jerwittdergut]

warior1 you missed the point bro. All of these deviant religions listed, came from shia "muslims". The founder of each and every one of these religions came from shia origins. im not saying they are branches of shia, im saying they have shia origins, taht applies too all of those listed

[Klorissana]

i believe a different one.
it started from here.
then spiralled out to here.

and now abufatimah claims it was said that 'salafism leads to kufr'.
while the truth is simply this.

whats your explanation for this then akhi:

"and then from ghair muqallid one becomes munkar e hadith/shia/qadiani very easily.
this is the reality. this is why we oppose salafis. now i hope you understand who the real cancer is."

is there some sort of hidden deep spiritual inner explanation for this statement that im not seeing?

[polleroy]

During this stage a dispute occurred between ad-Darazi and Hamza bin Ali mainly concerning ad-Darazi's ghuluww (Arabic, "exaggeration"), which refers to the belief that God was incarnated in human beings, especially 'Ali and his descendants

The Yârsânî are emanationists and incarnationists, believing that the Divine Essence has successive incarnations in human form known as mazhariyyats (similar to the Hindu avatars). They believe God manifests one primary and seven secondary manifestations in each of the seven epochs of the world. The mazhariyyats of the First Epoch closely matched by name the archangels of the Semitic religions; the mazhariyyats of the Second Epoch, which begins with ‘Alī as the primary avatar, also includes all Muslim figures except for one, Nusayr - either referring to the "Nazarene" (i.e. Jesus), or Nârsh, the minor avatar who later came to be known as Theophobus. (See Nazarene (sect), Mandaeism)

The religion of the Yazidis is a highly syncretic one: Sufi influence and imagery can be seen in their religious vocabulary, especially in the terminology of their esoteric literature, but much of the mythology is non-Islamic. Their cosmogonies apparently have many points in common with those of ancient Persian religions. Early writers attempted to describe Yazidi origins, broadly speaking, in terms of Islam, or Persian, or sometimes even pagan religions; however, publications since the 1990s have shown such an approach to be overly simplistic.[1]

religious (combining Anatolian folk Shi'ism with Sufi elements such as those of the Bektaşi tariqa)

The Druze (Arabic: درزي, derzī or durzī‎, plural دروز, durūz, Hebrew: דרוזים‎ druzim) are a monotheistic religious community, found primarily in Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, which emerged during the 11th century from [BIsmailism school of Shia Islam.][/B] Druze beliefs incorporate several elements from Abrahamic religions, Gnosticism, Neoplatonism and other philosophies. The Druze call themselves Ahl al-Tawhid "the People of Monotheism" or al-Muwaḥḥidūn "the Unitarians".

The Alawis, also known as Alawites, Nusayris and Ansaris (‘Alawīyyah (Arabic: علوية‎), Nuṣayrī (Arabic: نصيريون‎), and al-Anṣāriyyah) are a prominent mystical[9] religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.[10][11][12]

Ismāʿīlism (Arabic: الإسماعيليون‎ al-Ismāʿīliyyūn; Persian: اسماعیلیان‎Esmāʿiliyān; Urdu: إسماعیلی Ismāʿīlī) is the second largest branch of Shia Islam after the Twelvers (Ithnāʿashariyya). The Ismāʿīlī get their name from their acceptance of Ismāʿīl ibn Jaʿfar as the appointed spiritual successor (Imām) to Jaʿfar aṣ-Ṣādiq, wherein they differ from the Twelvers, who accept Mūsà al-Kāżim, younger brother of Ismāʿīl, as the true Imām.

The Bahá'í Faith ( /bəˈhaɪ/)[1] is a monotheistic religion founded by Bahá'u'lláh in 19th-century Persia], emphasizing the spiritual unity of all humankind.[2] There are an estimated five to six million Bahá'ís around the world in more than 200 countries and territories.[3][4]

As can be seen, many of these deviant sects and new religions are eminating from persia and specifically from the shia.

[tobaccoman]

whats your explanation for this then akhi:

"and then from ghair muqallid one becomes munkar e hadith/shia/qadiani very easily.
this is the reality. this is why we oppose salafis. now i hope you understand who the real cancer is."

is there some sort of hidden deep spiritual inner explanation for this statement that im not seeing?

i have stated that this is one scenario. i have also repeatedly asserted that not all salafis become murtad nor all murtads are salafis.
read that again.
but yeah. you supply ammunition to the islam haters.
unwittingly
and ive explained myself better in DI thread. please go read if you wish.

[sterofthemasteool]

i have stated that this is one scenario. i have also repeatedly asserted that not all salafis become murtad nor all murtads are salafis.
read that again.
but yeah. you supply ammunition to the islam haters.
unwittingly
and ive explained myself better in DI thread. please go read if you wish.

how many religions began with salafis? How many were sufi or shia?

So dont talk nonsense akhi, yes a salafi can become a murtad, as can a deo, but there is no increased rate of salafi apostates tahn otehr sects so dont try to link salafis with ridaa

did the porphet SAW supply ammo to muslim haters? The only reason they need is us being muslim akhi. You think they'll leave us alone as long as we beieve in la ilaha ilAllah?

[eCw56dzY]

how many religions began with salafis? How many were sufi or shia?

poor logic.

So dont talk nonsense akhi, yes a salafi can become a murtad, as can a deo, but there is no increased rate of salafi apostates tahn otehr sects so dont try to link salafis with ridaa

yes one can become an apostate. but salafism pushes you towards it further. enough evidence has been provided by me and ironically your own brethren. you dont wanna believe it i cant force you.

did the porphet SAW supply ammo to muslim haters? The only reason they need is us being muslim akhi. You think they'll leave us alone as long as we beieve in la ilaha ilAllah?

watch your language regarding the prophet (PBUH) boy.
the shias provide ammo (unwittingly) to kafir islam haters. do you think the shia are justified in applying the same analogy?
you will not do any sort of research on modernists and see whether what i said is true or not.
but you will continue to go about making these threads, refusing to listen
cant do much about it.

[Crilosajsamq]

poor logic.

Observing that most new religions sprang from shias and sufis is not a good reason to doubt taht the salafi aqeedah leads to kufr more than any other sect does? How on earth is taht poor logic. you've made a statement and backed it up with absolutely nothing so you've got a cheek telling me Ive got poor logic.

yes one can become an apostate. but salafism pushes you towards it further. enough evidence has been provided by me and ironically your own brethren. you dont wanna believe it i cant force you

Care to provide some of this "evidence"

watch your language regarding the prophet (PBUH) boy.
the shias provide ammo (unwittingly) to kafir islam haters. do you think the shia are justified in applying the same analogy?
you will not do any sort of research on modernists and see whether what i said is true or not.
but you will continue to go about making these threads, refusing to listen
cant do much about it.

Dont you dare accuse me of insulting the prophet SAW, I am demonstrating from his seerah taht the kuffar will always oppose us and that this isnt an evidence that we're doing something wrong. Taking lessons from the seerah is exactly what we SHOULD be doing to figure out what the prophet SAW would instruct us to do in our situation.

So you need to demonstrate something which salafis are doing that is against teh sunnah rather than using shia and kuffar as your gauge as to whether salafis actions are correct or not

[cymnPrayerm]

another strange offshoot of shia islam:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaykhism