[pinawinekolad]

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on The Ahmadiyya Qadiani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheIp...ayer_embedded#!

He differentiates between the 2 types of Ahmadis/Qadianis which is something I have not heard of before. Also he mentions Mawlana Muhammad Ali and if my memory serves me correctly he did the first research and refutation of Christianity, and Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik rely heavily on his work, though they don't mention him because he is associated with Qadianis...

[neotheMit]

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on The Ahmadiyya Qadiani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheIp...ayer_embedded#!

He differentiates between the 2 types of Ahmadis/Qadianis which is something I have not heard of before. Also he mentions Mawlana Muhammad Ali and if my memory serves me correctly he did the first research and refutation of Christianity, and Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik rely heavily on his work, though they don't mention him because he is associated with Qadianis...

So Mr Hamza says that Lahori Ahmadis are not outside the fold of Islam. It is expected from his mouth.

The Qadyanis split into two groups after the death of their first caliph , Hakim Noor uddin. The "Lahori Jamaat" of the Qadyanis did not do bayaat of the second caliph Mira Bashir Ahmad who was the son of Ghulaam Ahmad Qadyani. They took the stance that Mirza Ghulaam Ahmad Qadyani was just a reformer (mujadid) and he never claimed prophet-hood. The Lahori Jamaat does believe that Mirza Ghulam Qadyani was "Maseeh e mo'ood" but in the sense of a reformer."Maulana" Muhammad Ali was the pioneer of Lahori Jamaat. The Qadyani/Ahmadi group unlike the Lahori jamaat takes Ghulaam Ahmad Qadyani as Prophet and the promised massiah and Mehdi. Both these groups have been unanimously declared to be outside the fold of Islam.

[7kitthuptarill]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...29809-Ahmadiya

Assalamu Alaikum brothers a similar conversation has gone on on this thread.

[Unjucky]

May Allah guide him for this is nothing but misguidance from his part. Both groups of Qadiyani's are the same for all intents and purposes- they are KUFFAR. The Lahori Qadiyani's, whilst claiming that they do not believe Mirza claimed Prophethood (although I personally believe this to be some sort of taqiyyah to avoid persecution in Pakistan) are still kuffar for not making takfeer of Mirza or the 'normal' Qadiyani's etc. And their blatant rejection of well known aspects of Islam such as jihad, etc.

Regarding the Lahori Muhammad Ali, I doubt Deedat would need to rely on his works since refutations of Christianity have been around for centuries- many Muslims studied and refuted the Bible including the likes of Ibn Taymiyyah. Not to mention Christian works regarding things like textual criticism, higher criticism etc have been around for centuries also so refutations of Christianity is nothing new

[BenBoobmers]

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on The Ahmadiyya Qadiani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheIp...ayer_embedded#!

He differentiates between the 2 types of Ahmadis/Qadianis which is something I have not heard of before. Also he mentions Mawlana Muhammad Ali and if my memory serves me correctly he did the first research and refutation of Christianity, and Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik rely heavily on his work, though they don't mention him because he is associated with Qadianis...

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is not endorsing the Lahore Ahmadis, but he is differentiating between them and the Qadianis. Quite a few notable Muslim figures such as Muhammad Pickthall, Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi, Muhammad Iqbal, Maulana Mawdudi and Dr Israr Ahmad consider Lahore Ahmadis (not Qadianis) to be Muslims of a sort.

As for Sheikh Hamza Yusuf's saying that Maulana Muhammad Ali was a substantive scholar (although explaining that he was an innovator whose books should best be avoided). it is probably based upon things such as the following,


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif
Islamic Research Academy
General Department for
Research, Writing and Translation
Book Review

Referring to the request submitted by Mrs Samina Malik to the General Administration of Publication, Research and Translation, Islamic Research Academy, Al-Azhar Al-Sharif regarding the opinion concerning the Book:
The Religion of Islam

written by Maulana Muhammad Ali in English, to review the book regarding its correctness.

The Department hereby informs that the above mentioned book contains beneficial and helpful information, and the Muslim reader whose native language is English will benefit from this book.

Assalaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatahu

1/7/02

General Director
of the Department of Research,
Writing and Translation

Ali Abdel Baky

Department of Translation
Ziauddin Muhammad Muhammad



Shown below is the English translation of their endorsement of five other books:

Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem

December 1st, 2002
Al-Azhar Al-Sharif
Islamic Research Academy
General Department for
Writing and Translation

Mrs. Samina Malik
P.O. Box 3370
Dublin Oh 43016

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Book Review

Referring to your request submitted to the Department of Research, Writing and Translation at the Islamic Research Academy Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in regard to reviewing, evaluating and providing the opinion of Al-Azhar regarding the following books:

1) The Early Caliphate
2) Introduction to the Study of the Holy Quran
3) The New World Order
4) A Manual of Hadith
5) Muhammad the Prophet

written in English language by Maulana Muhammad Ali.

The Department hereby confirms that the above mentioned books contains useful knowledge and do not include anything that contradicts the Religion of Islam

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

General Director
of the Department of Research,
Writing and Translation

Ali Abdel Baky

[exschke]

i don't think i will be able to watch sh. hamza yusuf's lectures again.
lahori qadiani and other mirzais are all kaafir.

do not call them ahmadi. it means 'from ahmad', and they consider 'ahmad' to mean the kafir mirza ghulam ahmed qadiani and he stated it was him mentioned in Qur'an. so for them saying 'from ahmad' means that ahmad.
using simple arabic one can call them mirzai and qadiani.
they always insist on calling themselves ahmadi. one should wonder why.


anyone interested in knowing more about this fitnah can read ml. yusuf ludhianvi's tohfa e qadianiat (6 volumes ; first three available online in pdf as far as i know. even first volume should be enough)

is there an english translation available? someone once mentioned there was. it is an excellent book by the sheikh who was martyred. may Allah accept him as shaheed.

[PriniMai]

Hamza Yusuf is seriously wrong on this issue. Lahori Qadianis are also out of the fold of Islam.

[jisee]

Statement of Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi Regarding the Qadiani (Ahmadiyya) Cult


In the Name of Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate

It is an absolute and unconditional belief of Islam that hazrat Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah is the last Prophet and after him no one will be bestowed with prophethood till Doomsday. It is a belief that is known to every Muslim child.

In the beginning, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (d. May 26, 1908), too, professed faith in all Islamic beliefs. Later on, he started making contentions against Islamic beliefs. By and by, he declared that he was not only a nabi and rasul but (God forbid), he was the exact new incarnation of Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah. In accordance with these claims, Mirza formulated a new religion. The entire Ummah reciting the Kalimah of Hazrat Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah(SAW) was declared Kafir, bey-Iman and jahannami (headed for hell) by Mirza. He declared his wahi (revelations) and teachings as the basis for salvation. And he declared the Islam brought by hazrat Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah(SAW) as "dead Islam" and "cursed religion".

All the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani were proven wrong by the ulama-e-Islam, in light of incontrovertible arguments. They vindicated through numerous arguments that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was, like Musailamah Kazzab, a compulsive liar and a fraudulent person. http://www.peopleofsunnah.com/downlo...-qadianis.html

plenty of other info on Qadianis the following links http://www.irshad.org/other/ext_res.php

[Gazeboss]

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is not endorsing the Lahore Ahmadis, but he is differentiating between them and the Qadianis. Quite a few notable Muslim figures such as Muhammad Pickthall, Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi, Muhammad Iqbal, Maulana Mawdudi and Dr Israr Ahmad consider Lahore Ahmadis (not Qadianis) to be Muslims of a sort.

As for Sheikh Hamza Yusuf's saying that Maulana Muhammad Ali was a substantive scholar (although explaining that he was an innovator whose books should best be avoided). it is probably based upon things such as the following,

Don't throw lies here and there to save the image of this deviant. From where the hell do you come out with this "many wrongs make a right" fallacy? Mr A did something wrong so what? Mr B , Mr C , Mr D have done the same. Your saying that Fulaan Fulaan did not consider Lahori Jamaat to be outside the fold of Islam seems to be a baseless lie as well. Allama Iqbal was not a scholar and show your proof that Dr Israr ra , Mawlana Maududi ra and Abdul Majhid Daryabadi ra considered the Lahori Jamaat to be "muslims of some sort".

Mirza Ghulaam Qadyani was a kazzab and Dajjal. The one who knowingly does not consider him a Kafir endorses his claim of Prophet-hood. The Lahori Jamaat has been unanimously declared kaffir for taking the Dajjaal Mirza Qadyani not only as a Muslim but a "Mujadid". How can they still be Muslims?

[RooldpalApata]

Don't throw lies here and there to save the image of this deviant. From where the hell do you come out with this "many wrongs make a right" fallacy? Mr A did something wrong so what? Mr B , Mr C , Mr D have done the same. Your saying that Fulaan Fulaan did not consider Lahori Jamaat to be outside the fold of Islam seems to be a baseless lie as well. Allama Iqbal was not a scholar and show your proof that Dr Israr ra , Mawlana Maududi ra and Abdul Majhid Daryabadi ra considered the Lahori Jamaat to be "muslims of some sort".

Mirza Ghulaam Qadyani was a kazzab and Dajjal. The one who knowingly does not consider him a Kafir endorses his claim of Prophet-hood. The Lahori Jamaat has been unanimously declared kaffir for taking the Dajjaal Mirza Qadyani not only as a Muslim but a "Mujadid". How can they still be Muslims?

go ask Hamza Yusuf, as for your demands of evidence on Mawdudi and Israr Ahmed's views, go look it up. we are on the internet you know.

You have accused me of 'throwing lies here and there', I forgive you for Islam.

you have accused Sheikh Hamza Yusuf of being a 'deviant', I suggest that you write to him and seek his forgiveness, I am sure that he will give it to you InshaAllah.

maybe you are feeling too thirsty and are in a bad mood, but please remember that it is Ramadan.

[FailiaFelay]

Allama Iqbal was not a scholar and show your proof that Dr Israr ra , Mawlana Maududi ra and Abdul Majhid Daryabadi ra considered the Lahori Jamaat to be "muslims of some sort".

i would like to know that as well.

The Lahori Jamaat has been unanimously declared kaffir for taking the Dajjaal Mirza Qadyani not only as a Muslim but a "Mujadid". How can they still be Muslims?

an excellent point.

[SHUSIATULSE]

go ask Hamza Yusuf, as for your demands of evidence on Mawdudi and Israr Ahmed's views, go look it up. we are on the internet you know.

You have accused me of 'throwing lies here and there', I forgive you for Islam.

you have accused Sheikh Hamza Yusuf of being a 'deviant', I suggest that you write to him and seek his forgiveness, I am sure that he will give it to you InshaAllah.

maybe you are feeling too thirsty and are in a bad mood, but please remember that it is Ramadan.

and what if Allama Iqbal, Dr Israr ra , Mawlana Maududi ra and Abdul Majhid Daryabadi ra did not consider them 'muslims of some sort'? won't that be slander?
kindly do not get personal with people who disagree with you.

[Evsltkzl]

and what if Allama Iqbal, Dr Israr ra , Mawlana Maududi ra and Abdul Majhid Daryabadi ra did not consider them 'muslims of some sort'? won't that be slander?
kindly do not get personal with people who disagree with you.

just go look it up.

[Veveseinlep]

what if someone says i believe in every aspect of Islam but i think abu jahl was not a kafir but instead he was a muslim mujaddid.

what if someone says i believe in every aspect of Islam but i think musailma kazzab was not a kafir but instead he was a muslim mujaddid.

will that person remain a Muslim?

the answer is an unequivocal no.

[sposteTipsKage]

just go look it up.

find us the links or retract your statements.

[liontutuxx]

find us the links or retract your statements.

“In the initial stages, the leaders of the Jama‘at-i Islami, when asked about their view of [the conflict between] the Qadianis and the Ahrar movement against them, gave the following answers in private meetings: ...

‘4. Even if the question of the Qadianis is clear, the question of the Lahore Ahmadis is not so clear. As they accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as only a Mujaddid, it is not right from any aspect to call them kafir.’

Dr. Israr Ahmed

(Tahrik Jama‘at Islami, Darul Isha‘at Islamia, Lahore, 1966, pp. 189)

__________________________________________________ _

23 Muharram 1357 A.H. (about 1937), Abul Ala Maudoodi wrote:

“From among the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, I also do not consider Qadianis and Ahmadis to be in the same category. I consider the Qadiani group to be excluded from Islam. However, the Ahmadi group is included in Islam. ... We cannot issue a valid verdict of the Shari‘ah against them because they deny the prophethood of Mirza.”

[movlabk]

“In the initial stages, the leaders of the Jama‘at-i Islami, when asked about their view of [the conflict between] the Qadianis and the Ahrar movement against them, gave the following answers in private meetings: ...

‘4. Even if the question of the Qadianis is clear, the question of the Lahore Ahmadis is not so clear. As they accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as only a Mujaddid, it is not right from any aspect to call them kafir.’

Dr. Israr Ahmed

(Tahrik Jama‘at Islami, Darul Isha‘at Islamia, Lahore, 1966, pp. 189)

__________________________________________________ _

23 Muharram 1357 A.H. (about 1937), Abul Ala Maudoodi wrote:

“From among the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, I also do not consider Qadianis and Ahmadis to be in the same category. I consider the Qadiani group to be excluded from Islam. However, the Ahmadi group is included in Islam. ... We cannot issue a valid verdict of the Shari‘ah against them because they deny the prophethood of Mirza.”

A quick google search revealed that both the quotations have been copy pasted from the website of Lahori Jamaa't. http://ahmadiyya.org/movement/maudoodi/letter.htm

[RichardHaads]

A quick google search revealed that both the quotations have been copy pasted from the website of Lahori Jamaa't. http://ahmadiyya.org/movement/maudoodi/letter.htm

yes, you could have read that page without me having to do so. as I said several times, go look it up.

brother you personally have put me off Sunniforum.

may you enjoy your time on here.

[enlinnyGoob]

Dr Israr Ahmed Rahimahullah views on Lahori Jamaat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLn6K...eature=related

Dr Israr ra Alhamdulilah says that anyone who thinks that Ghulam Ahmad Qadyani was a Muslim , let alone saying that he was a Mujadid, is outside the fold of Islam and is a Kafir.

[Cydayshosse]

and yes come back with some snide answers, after all this is only the nth thread on here based upon attacking sheikh Hamza Yusuf, so why not just fill it up with your stuff and make yourself feel big. personally I shall not be here.