[sterofthemasteool]

I recently started listening to the guy. It has always been a disappointment to listen to him since then. It seems that he has accepted the dominance of the western enlightenment and now wants to tune Islam into a compatibility with it. Here Mr Hamza Yusuf explains the influence of Buddhism on the Maturidi and Ashari creed and how the "softness" arrived in Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyxYEJcEYXI

[conurgenceDen]

Yes, some examples would be helpful because I too keep hearing 'he's changed', which is very vague.

You seem like a reasonable brother (abdulwahhab) so please try and provide some examples, since you have commented on the thread. You can point to other threads if you think they contain valid criticism, but I don't want to this myself as I don't know which of them are valid or invalid criticism.

Well his lectures before 9/11 were very much against Western foreign policy and the medias bigotry towards muslims, he would strongly and confidently tackle and refute those atttacks that were directed towards Islam, and his message to the youth was be confident be proud to be a muslim do not let the media have an inferiority complex about you being a muslim.

Post 9/11 his lectures were toned down and came across as apologetic towards the media and establishment. Although my opinion is that he did not want to give the media further fuel to attack Islam, hence his more apologetic stance. Some of these issues were the American invasion of Afghanistan, niqab, even the muslim anger concerning the cartoons published against the prophet He appeared on tv and condemned the muslims in arab countries for boycotting the Danish goods.Rather then strongly condemning the Cartoons that were published.

But taking everything into account there is no reason you should not listen to Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, certainly if you are feeling down and depressed and need some uplifting and inspiration he probably one of the best lectureres to listen, very inspirational and dynamic and make you feel proud to be muslim. But at the same time do not take everything he says as gospel and take intyo account that some of what he says is said as to not offend the wetern media.

[Quiniacab]

I believe that Shaykh Hamza Yusuf would be much more highly recommended if he was living in and operated out of a Muslim country or even the UK.

Also, a lot of the same criticism levelled at Shaykh Hamza Yusuf can be levelled at other famous scholars living in the US. Yasir Qadhi, although being a Salafi, has also done some things that Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has done, with conceding to the West and its ideologies over the positions held by Muslims ever since 9/11.

[Haftdrarp]

Martin Luther King was considred a moderat Black Civil Rights activist, Malcolm X by contrast was considered an extremist. Malcolm X was reported to have said that if it was not for people like himself Martin Luther King would not have been able to get his message accepted as moderate. In other words Malcolm X acted as a foil for the presentation of the actual message. Hamza Yusuf if he adopted a 'extremist' position would become isolated and labeled an extremist, he needs to tailor his message to fit into his society without being isolated...I think he is doing a good job, May Allah Bless him and give his success in everything.

I recently started listening to the guy. It has always been a disappointment to listen to him since then. It seems that he has accepted the dominance of the western enlightenment and now wants to tune Islam into a compatibility with it. Here Mr Hamza Yusuf explains the influence of Buddhism on the Maturidi and Ashari creed and how the "softness" arrived in Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyxYEJcEYXI

[Tilmbeinymn]

I have heard from an 'aalim who studied alongside Sh. Hamza and knows him personally that.., I'm not sure how to put it but, let's say, what he says in private is a lot more 'strict' than when he speaks publicly to western audience especially regarding gender/women issues.

But I agree, it can be and is a source of confusion for the common Muslim, who is not aware of this and is not solidly grounded in the deen.

[UitEz0Qo]

A lot of scholars use ambiguous language, phrases etc nowadays because they feel it suits the context. For example, Shaykh Hamza was not advocating that women can lead men in prayer, he just wanted to show such opinions may have existed previously even if they are not relied upon or mean to be followed (and in fact, he quoted the position incorrectly but many scholars make mistakes like that). The use of ambiguous language differs in extent amongst some scholars though but just take a look at Shaykh Yaqoubi's interview on Sky recently where he was talking about democracy and so forth and the video of a Deobandi scholar that was posted on this forum where it seemed as if he was anti-Taliban... the point is, Shaykh Yaqoubi was not advocating western democracy and the Deobandi scholar (whose name I forget) was not saying he DIDN'T support Taliban but they used ambiguities in language and sentence structure to get them out of trouble. People may or may not like such an approach but Shaykh Hamza isn't the only one using it.

[Essefsbyday]

Has everyone forgotten when he said that the "J-word" was not used in the Quran with a military meaning "not once" on CBS's 60 minutes?

Furthermore, I would advise that the OP just do a search through old threads in the forum and he'll see why many have reservations about his post-9/11 material.

To get you started:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...64-hamza-yusuf

However, bear in mind that his heart is probably in the right place, as I'm sure his intentions are noble, but it is the path he's taking toward his goal of helping Muslims that many of us object to.

[JulieSmithdccd]

a white born non muslim ..teaching me and benefitting me vastly..a born muslim

all praise to allah for showing the proof that allah chooses whom he wills for guidance and elevation

i a born muslim do not know arabic,nor do i know 5% if less of what this man knows ,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HnxvGCcic

be fearful of allah in youre judgement brothers

[Styparty]

A lot of scholars use ambiguous language, phrases etc nowadays because they feel it suits the context. For example, Shaykh Hamza was not advocating that women can lead men in prayer, he just wanted to show such opinions may have existed previously even if they are not relied upon or mean to be followed (and in fact, he quoted the position incorrectly but many scholars make mistakes like that). The use of ambiguous language differs in extent amongst some scholars though but just take a look at Shaykh Yaqoubi's interview on Sky recently where he was talking about democracy and so forth and the video of a Deobandi scholar that was posted on this forum where it seemed as if he was anti-Taliban... the point is, Shaykh Yaqoubi was not advocating western democracy and the Deobandi scholar (whose name I forget) was not saying he DIDN'T support Taliban but they used ambiguities in language and sentence structure to get them out of trouble. People may or may not like such an approach but Shaykh Hamza isn't the only one using it.

hmmm this is the same thing salafis say when defending some of the fatwas given by their scholars...they say one thing in public but private advice to people is different

there may be some kind of hikmah init but it misleads the masses...so why not just remain silent instead

[maxfreemann]

A lot of scholars use ambiguous language, phrases etc nowadays because they feel it suits the context. For example, Shaykh Hamza was not advocating that women can lead men in prayer, he just wanted to show such opinions may have existed previously even if they are not relied upon or mean to be followed (and in fact, he quoted the position incorrectly but many scholars make mistakes like that). The use of ambiguous language differs in extent amongst some scholars though but just take a look at Shaykh Yaqoubi's interview on Sky recently where he was talking about democracy and so forth and the video of a Deobandi scholar that was posted on this forum where it seemed as if he was anti-Taliban... the point is, Shaykh Yaqoubi was not advocating western democracy and the Deobandi scholar (whose name I forget) was not saying he DIDN'T support Taliban but they used ambiguities in language and sentence structure to get them out of trouble. People may or may not like such an approach but Shaykh Hamza isn't the only one using it.

Hmmmm.... Thats a nice way of keeping Husn Al Dhan towards the ulema. Things are really tricky at the moment. Thanks for sharing the thought bro.

[iOqedeyH]

Has everyone forgotten when he said that the "J-word" was not used in the Quran with a military meaning "not once" on CBS's 60 minutes?

Furthermore, I would advise that the OP just do a search through old threads in the forum and he'll see why many have reservations about his post-9/11 material.

To get you started:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...64-hamza-yusuf

However, bear in mind that his heart is probably in the right place, as I'm sure his intentions are noble, but it is the path he's taking toward his goal of helping Muslims that many of us object to.

Look at post 44 in the thread you just posted and see that it yet another example of Shaykh being as ambiguous is possible. He did not say fighting is not mentioned but tried to convey that when jihad is mentioned in the Quran, it does not mean military fighting only. I disagree with such an approach but this approach is taken by a lot of scholars, many of whom are not criticised on Sunniforum every few months

[fedelwet]

a white born non muslim ..teaching me and benefitting me vastly..a born muslim

all praise to allah for showing the proof that allah chooses whom he wills for guidance and elevation

i a born muslim do not know arabic,nor do i know 5% if less of what this man knows ,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HnxvGCcic

be fearful of allah in youre judgement brothers

and be careful of why you feel the way you do though you have never met the man nor travelled with him nor had no personal dealings with him

if anyone thinks that this is a time when one must NOT think before he speaks is surely a liability to himself

[Diortarkivoff]

No doubt Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is one the leading scholars in the world. Influencing the likes of Shaykh Yaqoobi, Nuh Keller Yahya Ninowy etc. How dare these Wahhabis/Salafis insult him!

[sisuarmalmicy]

no one has really answered my question

why shouldn't i listen to him?

Reasons why some oppose SHY:

1. What he used to be like and what he is like now.

2. Giving advice on how to avoid shaking women's hands then shaking a woman's hand himself.

3. SHY's and Zaytuna's almost flagrant disregard for segregation.

4. Claiming Hudud is no longer applicable in todays's capitalist society.

5. Claiming in an earlier lecture you can gauge a persons character by their interactions with kuffar leaders...then going and becoming an advisor to the biggest tyrant of them all.

6. *Allegedly* saying america were right to invade Afghanistan (although I've never seen any evidence of this).

7. Claiming american racists who firebombed mosques were 'not bad people'

8. Recently, defending Dante who claimed Rasullullah saw was in hellfire. Even the brelevis were in uproar, some even doing takfeer after hearing this.

[Zenthachall]

bro faisal where did he say about hudood no longer applying?

[Qutlsilh]

a white born non muslim ..teaching me and benefitting me vastly..a born muslim

all praise to allah for showing the proof that allah chooses whom he wills for guidance and elevation

i a born muslim do not know arabic,nor do i know 5% if less of what this man knows ,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HnxvGCcic

be fearful of allah in you're judgement brothers

Assalamu Alaikum

I generally agree with your post brother, but on one thing I would like to 'pick a bone' with you.

what has his being 'white' got to do with anything?

There is nothing strange about a scholar being white. There have been dozens of notable white scholars of Islam in history.

Be careful not to use words that carelessly insult the Caucasian Muslims, be they from Muslim families or from non-Muslim families.

Colour has got nothing to do with anything.

[PriniMai]

I agree with your post, but on one thing I would like to 'pick a bone' with you.

what has his being 'white' got to do with anything brother?

There is nothing strange about a scholar being white. There have been dozens of notable white scholars of Islam in history.

Be careful not to use words that carelessly insult the Caucasian Muslims, be they from Muslim families or from non-Muslim families.

Colour has got nothing to do with anything.

thats my point



and inshallah i may be working/consulting with abdul hakim murad on various issues
if allah wills,just waiting for him to be free from end of term commitments

[NudiJuicervich]

Allahu a'lam. I cant say I agree with him on a lot of things but I dont think he's anywhere near teh same category as imran hossein from the other thread. At least he's trying to bring muslims together, cooperating with people from all schools within sunni islam, not forceful in his refutation, not confrontational towards muslims, doing some good work undoubtedly. Im not saying listen to him, but I think there are far worse people. I wouldnt hold anything against him even if you deem it better not to study with him personally

[bWxNFI3c]

Martin Luther King was considred a moderat Black Civil Rights activist, Malcolm X by contrast was considered an extremist. Malcolm X was reported to have said that if it was not for people like himself Martin Luther King would not have been able to get his message accepted as moderate. In other words Malcolm X acted as a foil for the presentation of the actual message. Hamza Yusuf if he adopted a 'extremist' position would become isolated and labeled an extremist, he needs to tailor his message to fit into his society without being isolated...I think he is doing a good job, May Allah Bless him and give his success in everything.

Had Hamza been doing so since the beginning then it would not have been much of an issue but his tone changed after 9/11 and we can safely assume that the post 9/11 environment effected all of his ideologies. We should also differentiate between softness and hypocrisy. It is also noteworthy that we Muslims are not the saviors of Islam. We are just practitioners of Islam and never has Allah put the burden of saving his religion on us. The savior is Allah himself.

Buddhism has become synonymous with religious moderation in the west and may be it is the only religion which is acceptable to the enlightened west these days. Mr Hamza's weird analogy of somehow making the maturidi creed look like having Buddhist roots is not only an expression of hypocrisy and a huge accusation against Imam Abul Mansoor maturidi but it also depicts the palpable insecurities running in the neurons of Hamza while addressing the western crowd.

Will any maturidi here agree with Hamza who has said that Imam Abul Mansoor was born in maturid where Buddhism was much common and the Buddhist influences made him soft so that he came with the soft toned Maturidi creed?

[AffipgyncDync]

bro faisal where did he say about hudood no longer applying?

Al-Jazeera (English version) interview, you can find it on YouTube.