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Old 12-22-2010, 07:13 PM   #1
Varbaiskkic

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Default Deobandis and Naqshbandis
What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific?
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:16 PM   #2
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What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific?
What have the deobandis said about naqshbandis? Well, many deobandis are infact associated with the naqshbandi tariqah: The silsilah of Haji Imdadullah muhajir al-makki consisted of 4 salasil i.e. chishtiyah, qadriyyah, naqshbandiyah and suharwardiyah.. It is this silsilah to which many deobandis have been associated (including likes of Mufti Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Maulana Khaleel Ahmad Saharanpuri, Maulana Husayn Ahmad Madani, Hazrat Abdur-Raheem Raepuri and Maulana Zakariyah Kandhalwi along with many contemporary ulama like Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar and Mufti Tqai Usmani). However the abve mentioned silsilah has remained mainly chishti inclined.. However there have been other deobandi naqshbandiyah mashaikh as well like Hazrat Khawaja Khan Muhammad Sahib (who recently passed away) and Hazrat Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi d.b..

Hope this heps..

Wassalaam
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:50 PM   #3
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http://tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:37 AM   #4
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Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia.
Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:51 AM   #5
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guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin

he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!!

They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to

others can explain better......
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:57 AM   #6
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guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin

he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!!

They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to

others can explain better......
JazakAllah for the update, but to be honest, I couldn't control my laughter when I saw the photo and the description in the link. BTW, check http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9822041901729#[/video] out yourself and decide if .... ROTFL

EPIC display of Islamic manners at 01:35
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:59 AM   #7
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walaikum assalam

what does OP mean?

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah.

i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:49 AM   #8
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jazakallah for the update, but to be honest, i couldn't control my laughter when i saw the photo and the description in the link. Btw, check
epic display of islamic manners at 01:35
omg
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:13 PM   #9
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...Hope this heps...
Yeah it did help

for the input

...Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.
for the input

...They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to...
I phoned an Alim today and asked him about the issue and that is essential what he said to me.

... erm ... ROFL

...what does OP mean?...
I was getting confused between what I saw about one group of Naqshbandis and what others people said about them. So I asked for clarification in the form of what Deobandi scholars have said on the issue. It turns out that there are different people with different interpretations who claim to be Naqshbandis. The Alim said that the people I saw as Naqshbandis (Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin, et al.) are different from what Deobandis see as Naqshbandis. (I hope that made sense)

omg
LOL
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:59 AM   #10
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walaikum assalam

what does OP mean?

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah.

i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah


OP = Original Poster (i.e. abz in this case)

Seems youre frm a barelwi background. Barelwis do like to spread myths about Deoband and this is one of them. Tasawwuf and spirituality is extremely encouraged. Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanwi is considered a Mujaddid in this field in the Indo/Pak subcontinent (well, among non-Barelwis that is).

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!
How on earth would that work then?!?!?!? Leading scholars affiliated to tariqahs but then they dont encourage it....???....weird

...there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality "trend"... astaghfiruLlah. What do you mean by that?

Every single one of the Deobandi elders were affiliated to and greatly encouraged tasawwuf and spirituality...though not the type of "spirituality" which is restricted by some to mazars and dances.

......animosity that was once there is now reducing.... animosity...what nonsense!!! Animosity was to Shirk and Bid'ah, not tasawwuf!


Your notion that the Ulama of Deoband where against tasawwuf is just on of many myths created by some barelwis, which theyll have to answer for inshaAllah.

A good place to start would have been www.deoband.org but theyve got some technical problems at present.

But since it seems you dnt really have a clue about the maslak of Deoband, you may want to read this: http://www.darululoom-deoband.com/english/index.htm

Here's a great snippet from it:

If this track which has been obtained through the spiritual connections (Nisbats) of the predecessors and the successors is reduced to technical language, then in sum it is this that religiously Darul Uloom is Muslim; as a sect, Ahl-e-Sunnat wal-Jama'at; in practical method, (Mazhab), Hanafi'yat; in conduct, Sufi; dialectically, Maturidi Ash'ari; in respect of the mystic path, Chishtiyyah, rather comprising all the Sufi orders; in thought, Waliyullhian; in principle, Qasimiyah; sectionally, Rasheedian; and as regards connection, Deobandi".
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:56 AM   #11
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Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:09 AM   #12
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Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.
Sorry sister, but this "oh you forget there are other hanafis too" card or the excuse that sub-continental hanafis don't know much about the rest of the world, is no longer usable here. What are you trying to say? Deobandis are alHamdulillah knowledgeable about almost every field of Islamic Jurisprudence, their only down-side is that they do not bend/twist/change Islam based on public demand. If a brother wants to know what is the relationship between the said person and the Deobandi Naqshbandis, there's nothing wrong with it.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:35 AM   #13
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Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.


1. While sometimes the people on this forum criticise others for something which is a legitimate difference of opinion, this is very rare
2. They are very strict on areas where no such legitimate difference exists, such as regards to the permissibility (or rather impermissibility) of music, not touching a non mahram, etc hence, the Haqqani's are failures
3. The problem with the secular/liberal Bosnian was that she was a secular/liberal Bosnian. While the Deobandies (and I am not one myself) have solid evidence for what they say, I doubt she does
4. There were many weird opinions coming out of the Ottoman Empire, probably due to politicial reasons.

In short, I don't understand what your saying
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:05 PM   #14
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Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia.
Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.
Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:12 AM   #15
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Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.

interessting. Is there any biograohy on Shah Rafi al-Deen al-Deobandi Mujaddidi Naqshbandi ?
Ive only ever heard very few stories about him. Imam Nanotwi once said about him that he was no difference in Mawlana Gangohi and Shah Rafi al-Deen except that the former was an Alim. (rahimahumuLlah)

@sister reeha: I think maybe you havent understood the purpose of this thread. No one had even mentioned anything to do with non-Indian Hanafis or anything connected to that before your post, i honestly dont understand whey you brouht that up here. Maybe you should start your own thread for that discussion because (imo) what you say about some Indian/Pak/Bengali Hanafis thinking there are no other Hanafis in the world is quite true with some people; especially among those who actually live in the Ind subcontinent (as opposed to migrants to other countries). I think the reason is that the time when they (or anyone 4 that matter) gets exposed to the rest of the ummah the most is at the time of Hajj/Umrah where, inevitably, most of the ppl they meet/see are Arabs; and Arabs are mostly non-Hanafi.
Mufti al-Kawthari also mentions something lyk this in a speech which is on youtube.
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:19 AM   #16
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Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat...
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:00 AM   #17
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Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.
Even moulana badre alam sahab Meerathi,Muhajer madani, a well known deobandi scholar,who wrote famous collection of Hadeeth,TARJUMANUS SUNNA, was mureed of moulana Aziz ul Rahman ra,and after his wafat got khilafat from another naqshbandi shaikh.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:17 AM   #18
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Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat...
Brother,you are right.Deobandis and barelwi,s both strongly believe in tassawuf and therefore one can find mashaikh of naqshbandia silsila in both.the difference is not weather they believe in tassawuf or not,The difference is what do they mean by tassawuf.As it goes, for Deobandi,s tassawuf means strict ittiba e sunna,toheed,Islahe nafs etc.For most of the Barelwi,s it means Urs,Mazarat,qawali and things similar to it.Naqshbandia silsila is known for its strictness with ittibae sunna,so it is usually not very appealing for barelwi.s but yes,some naqshbandi mashaikh can be found even in barelwi,s.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:13 AM   #19
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Deobandis ulema are associated with Naqshahbandi, Qadri, Chishti, and the Suhrawardiyyah silsilah
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